Download the .mp3 version of this show here.

Links to things we discussed:

The campaign of Minnesota Democrat Keith Ellison

A look into the UK niqab affair

Find a mosque near you to celebrate Ramadan and Eid at

New podcasts from Q-News and the Radical Middle Way project

Pulling art at the Whitechapel Gallery in the UK

The making of this podcast, along with an additional interview, was recorded for an audio documentary for the BBC World Service. You can hear it in the UK on Sunday 22nd October on medium wave (648 kHz), online, and on DAB digital radio at 0730 and 1730 GMT. The show will also be archived on the programme's web page from Saturday night onwards.

Great podcast. You'll need to tell me who the mystery candidate was sometime.

oh, jeez, did i say Paul Wellstone was from Massachusetts (not Minnesota)?

that's what i get for recording a podcast 10 minutes before iftaar...

d'oh! can't we edit that back in?

Great podcast, as always. Each time I hear you guys, you restore my faith in Muslim moderates and in the possibility of all of us living along in mutual respect and tolerance.

That being said, I have to take issue with your complaining about the fact that every incident is hyped out of proportion. That is not what is happening. What is happening is that non-Muslims are scared and concerned because the only face of Islam the media show them is the lunatics among the Muslim population who are foaming at the mouth and screaming to kill the infidels. As long as that's the only version of Islam the media projects, the gap will keep widening and every incident will appear to be blown out of proportion ever more. You suggested yourself the solution: moderate Muslims need to stand up and reject publicly the nutcases as NOT being representative of Muslim communities. You cited the example of one such nutcase who made his case outside a mosq because he had been kicked out of it, and of course the media was all too happy to interview him. What should have happened was either for the imam of the mosq, its director or a bona fide representative to intervene and declare that this guy did not represent this Muslim community. Make it clear that he is not the guy the media should turn to for a Muslim opinion. And if that was not possible, the mosq should have convened a press conference to straighten the record. But there's the rub: the moderates either don't have the courage or the strength to come out and state their case. In so doing, they perpetuate themselves what you complained about: since the media doesn't know any better, they'll always focus on who screams the loudest. And in this game, everybody loses: moderate Muslims, non Muslims, and the idea of mutual tolerance and respect. If moderate Mulims dont' stand up firmly and fast, they are at risk of being swept away by the general rejection of Islam triggered by the irresponsible antics of a few hotheads. It's your call. Don't put the blame on anyone else.

Here's a very good article on the quandary that moderate Muslims face in their communities: http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=24969

I invite you to read it as it addresses head on the problem of moderate Muslims vs. mainstream Muslims. The question it ends up asking is: do the moderates really represent the majority of Muslims in their communities, or are they in the minority? If they are in the minority, this would explain why they are so easily cowed into silence by extremists' threats to their lives. Living in fear for advocating a moderate view of Islam (let alone a reformation) is not indicative of a religion that can evolve peacefully. Despite the excellent work that you guys do, I'm starting to wonder if it is not doomed given the majority's inclination to follow the extremists' views. The totalitarian streak built wothin Islam may in the end not make it possible for moderates like you to succeed in bringing in a reformation. And without reformation, Islam is headed for a direct clash with the rest of the world.

Can Islam actually be reformed? That is the central question, and the answer at this point is a very strong "probably not". It's a depressing thought, but the prospect of peaceful reform is really not good.

Angel, thanks for your comments and feedback. We do appreciate it.

I know it's hard to prove, but from our point of view, the majority of Muslims in the West are (like almost everyone else) so busy with their everyday lives that they have no time to participate in politics or social commentary. There are polls that are taken of Muslim opinion at times, but even these are a bit misleading.

As for the extremists, though we maintain that there are few of them, they detest those of us who are not interested in endless conflict with the West more than they despise westerners. And for the few moderates that do speak out, they are often accused of being apologists or peddling extremism in moderate guise.

In some ways, it's a PR problem. In other ways, there needs to be a cultural shift that allows constructive self-criticism and a willingness to differentiate between tribal cultural practices (which we would argue are more a source of extremism) and the religion itself which millions upon millions practice peacefully.