Download the .mp3 version of this show here.

Links to things we discussed:

A background into Lebanese politics.

Chef Anthony Bourdain's take on the bombing of Beirut.

The 45th annual Muslim Youth Camp.

Hi, I'm a regular listener to your podcast, I like most of it. In this podcast 17 one of you say with regard to the shia-sunni schism that "pluralism is a very alien concept to most muslims". Of course historically this is not true. Thanks to 'My community will not agree in an error' (your prophet) there has always been a high degree of pluralism in islam. Same goes for the room left to the 'religions with a book'. I would think that the tendency to fight internally is a 'modern' phenomenon, related to the emergence of the nation state since the 19 hundreds.
Wibo

Not sure I remember the context of that comment, but I'm pretty sure we meant that Muslim societies used to be more homogenous, and that differences between Muslims arose with the political turbulence and ease of migration that occured in the 20th century, and that Muslims are still getting accustomed to living in close proximity with people from different backgrounds, schools of thought, etc. - especially in the West, where we are trying to forge a common community.

"Not sure I remember the context of that comment, but I'm pretty sure we meant that Muslim societies used to be more homogenous"
No. Ottoman Turkey was maybe more pluralistic than western societies today. Jews and christians had their own courts and were (up to certain level) allowed to have their own laws. The four law schools within islam had their own Kadi's.
And look at Muslim societies from Morocco to Turkey to Indonesia: it's all islam, but differences are huge. Still, all these different communities were and ARE islamic. And there used to be no 'rivalism' between these communities. Today that seems to be more common. Looks like islam is loosing its plurality.

The comment was intended (and perhaps poorly phrased) to point out that Muslim societies today (not historically or theoretically within Islam) have difficulties with political and religious pluralism internally (which means basically we agree that Islam is "losing its plurality."

Consider the ongoing sectarianism between Shias and Sunnis in Pakistan or the violence against Christians and Ahmadis in Pakistan. Or in a western context, consider the multiplicity of Muslim groups and leaders that often refuse to associate or recognise each other, each claiming that they are more representative of Muslims (the Maududi lean of the MCB vs. the Sufi Muslim Council in Britain or the cultural conflicts between immigrant and African-American Muslims in the US). And yet every shade of opinion speaks of a unified Muslim ummah.

How are Muslims - outside of the establishment of a worldwide Muslim state (infintessimally unlikely) - going to reach enough consensus to be unified on anything more than the liberation of Palestine or ending the occupation of Iraq? I personally don't see enough respect for the diversity of theological or political opinion within the Muslim community to feel that concepts of pluralism within Islam have survived from historic times.

You're right that no one denies Israel's right to retaliate but I don't believe the conflict that summer was solely 'to liberate Palestine' as you mentioned, but to force Israel into a prisoner swap. As for who was victorious - even that is not agreed upon it seems! I would say if half your infrastructure is gone and you have more casualties then you'd have to concede defeat, but the public backlash in Israel and resignation of key military personnel and calls for Olmert to resign suggests that Hizbollah had more of an effect than most people thought.
The bigger aim of 'destroying Israel' still exists however (for both Hamas and Hizbollah) and this sentiment is supported by numerous Muslims - both Shi'is and Sunnis around the world. A key debate is whether as Muslims we should recognise Israel's right to exist - should we? or should we not? Maybe you can discuss the theology behind this question?

Shia sympathies across borders do exist, notably between Iraqi and Iranian Shias who are mostly of the same denomination (12'ers), and of those who live in other parts of the Arab world or in the West. Iraqi Shi'i friends of mine have pictures and texts of numerous Iranian Ayatollahs in their homes for example. A lot had sympathy for Iran back in the war in the 1980's, but Iraq did seem a very tolerant place with mixed marriages and mixed communities up until 2003 and the invasion, and America may now be concerned with Iraqi Shias looking towards cooperating with Iran in the future.

Here in the UK we recognise the differences (it is necessary to do so, especially as Shias are the minority within the minority of UK Muslims) but are trying to unite to face the problems we face together to try and help our futures. Two prominent Shia organisations here (Islamic Centre England (I believe is Iranian backed) and Al Khoei Foundation) do most of the representing for Shias in the UK.

We have numerous camps in the UK - two provisos - expect to be watched and don't rule out being arrested!