From the Silk Road to the growth of Muslim communities in Europe and America, migration has been a part of the Muslim experience ever since the hijra - the fleeing of the early Muslim community from Mecca to Medina to avoid persecution. There is no part of the Muslim world that hasn't been touched in some way by the shifting of communities both inside and outside its borders. The Muslim American immigrant experience in particular has been a challenging one, especially since the days of 9/11. The last few years have shown us the early targeting and detained (without a single terror-related conviction among them), the plight of Muslim immigrants caught in INS red tape, the special registration that specifically targeted Muslim visitors, the prevention of the immigration of US scholars, and the deportation of Muslim women who made the mistake of divorcing their US citizen husbands. Based on this, one would think that Muslims would have a lot to say on the current raging debate on immigration. But aside from a few voices joining calls for a more humane immigration policy as scattered endorsers of various protests, there has been little contribution from Muslim circles. "We are all in this together," said Fatme Bahmad, whose husband is facing deportation. "Arabs and Latinos and we should all have one voice." Critics of immigration reform, however, have not hesitated to pull the "Muslim card" in their efforts, citing not Mexican immigrants but a potential "invasion" of "Islamist extremists" in order to whip up support for more draconian measures. They cite the "Muslim immigrant takeover" of Europe (which has not been as successful as integrating immigrants into their society as America has) and call current US policy a "welcome mat for terrorists." So what happens now? In the West, some Muslims have taken up the "burning boats" metaphor of Tarek ibn Ziyad, the Muslim general who began the conquest of Spain by burning the boats used to cross the Mediterranean, thus preventing a retreat. The intent is to convince Muslim immigrants of the need to become full participants in their new home and abandoning their previous national identity. Those Muslims who have now made their home in America (and have by all accounts done quite well for themselves) would do well to heed this advice and contribute to the resolution of this issue, for the betterment of all.

"The intent is to convince Muslim immigrants of the need to become full participants in their new home and abandoning their previous national identity."

It is difficult to abandon "national" or "cultural" identity when "home" calls more powerfully and frequently in an increasingly globalized world. Developments, say in south-asia (or the middle-east), continue to influence the new mmigrant and even second/third generation immigrants through al-jazeera, bollywood culture, arundhati roy, or pakistani rock music.

Don't you think immigrant Muslims being more public or vocal about it would only make things worse for our Xicano brothers and sisters? Being in the same boat as Muslims would be the last straw for them other than being poor, brown, and immigrant.

>>Don't you think immigrant Muslims being more public or vocal about it would only make things worse for our Xicano brothers and sisters? Being in the same boat as Muslims would be the last straw for them other than being poor, brown, and immigrant.<<

I dont know if we have a choice in the matter. Theres always heightened tensions around election time, but this year is particularly alarming with neonazis and white separatists and exceptionalists like the MinuteMen and AmericanPatrol on the loose.
Lets see what happens on May 1 protests.

This debate is about ILLEGAL immigrants. Legal immigrants built this country. In talking with the immigrants in my department (60% are not American), ALL of them oppose giving illegal immigrants citizenship. Why should my collegues have to cross every "T" and dot every "i" when someone can stay here illegally for 5 years, pay a fine and become a citizen?

And practically, what do the policians fear by alienating illegal aliens(hehe)? They can't vote the existing politicians out of office anyway.

>>This debate is about ILLEGAL immigrants. <<

Then why are LEGAL immigrants also being demonized? You cant deny that many of the people who are at the forefront of the this debate against illegal immigration are extremists and exceptionalists. I doubt many of them would have a problem if Swedes were illegally crossing the border.


>>Legal immigrants built this country.<<

Actually most of the population in the US is descended from illegal immigrants.

>>In talking with the immigrants in my department (60% are not American), ALL of them oppose giving illegal immigrants citizenship. Why should my collegues have to cross every "T" and dot every "i" when someone can stay here illegally for 5 years, pay a fine and become a citizen?
<<

I can understand resentment from those who had to go through the process as opposed to crossing the border. Many of them would probably do the same thing if they had the chance.

>>And practically, what do the policians fear by alienating illegal aliens(hehe)? They can't vote the existing politicians out of office anyway.<<

Big business. Illegal immigration is a consistent source of cheap labor and profits. Not to mention scapegoating around election time.

>Then why are LEGAL immigrants also being demonized? You cant deny that many of the people who are at the forefront of the this debate against illegal immigration are extremists and exceptionalists. I doubt many of them would have a problem if Swedes were illegally crossing the border.

Would you site me an example? I have not heard of any legal immigrants getting hassled during this scandal.

>>Legal immigrants built this country.<<

>Actually most of the population in the US is descended from illegal immigrants.

Actually most of the population in the US is descended from LEGAL immigrants in that there were no ILLEGAL immigrants until 1891 when criminals and diseased people were forbidden entrance to the US.

>Many of them would probably do the same thing if they had the chance.

Not too many computer science jobs for illegal aliens in the US.

>Big business. Illegal immigration is a consistent source of cheap labor and profits. Not to mention scapegoating around election time.

True and true.

>>Would you site me an example? I have not heard of any legal immigrants getting hassled during this scandal.<<

Try travelling with a green card with a non-European name and the wrong skin color.

>>Actually most of the population in the US is descended from LEGAL immigrants in that there were no ILLEGAL immigrants until 1891 when criminals and diseased people were forbidden entrance to the US.<<

Really? I dont recall reading about Native American Indians handing green cards to those on the Mayflower, do you? You know as well as I do that white settlers were invaders, the only true Americans are Native Americans. Mexicans can argue that they're doing the same thing, except handing pox ridden blankets. How do you think Iraqis feel?

>>Not too many computer science jobs for illegal aliens in the US.<<

Correct. There are FAR more jobs in construction, land scaping and picking fruit. I will say this much though...I have NEVER seen them begging...thats the sort of work ethic lazy whites and blacks can learn from.

>Try travelling with a green card with a non-European name and the wrong skin color.

I still need some documented examples. Articles, blogs, etc. While there is always a level isolationism, I still haven't seen anything more than that. Even that racist game where you shoot mexicans crossing the border is about mexicans crossing illegally. It isn't a game about shooting mexicans while they are picking fruit.

>Really? I dont recall reading about Native American Indians handing green cards to those on the Mayflower, do you? You know as well as I do that white settlers were invaders, the only true Americans are Native Americans. Mexicans can argue that they're doing the same thing, except handing pox ridden blankets.

I believe we were talking about the United States immigration issue and not the settling/conquering of North America.

>How do you think Iraqis feel?

Why is it that you somehow relate EVERY discussion here to Iraq?

>>I still need some documented examples. Articles, blogs, etc.<<

I got a better idea, go look it up. You must have been living n a giant cocoon for the last 4 years if you have no clue about it. Ever heard of Lou Dobbs or Tom Tancredo?

>>Even that racist game where you shoot mexicans crossing the border is about mexicans crossing illegally. <<

Really.....so how many illegal Irish, Russian and east European immigrants get the bullet first and questions later? This is a total whitewash attempt to justify wholesale brutality.

>>It isn't a game about shooting mexicans while they are picking fruit.<<

Ah but then its ok because they're being paid pennies on the dollar.

>>I believe we were talking about the United States immigration issue and not the settling/conquering of North America.<<

You cant have a discussion about this issue without historical context. America is a nation of immigrants. The only true Americans are the Native peoples. Much of the southwest was taken forcibly taken from Mexico under the expansionist policy of Manifest Destiny, it could be argued that they are simply "taking" back their country.

>>Why is it that you somehow relate EVERY discussion here to Iraq?<<

Not every discussion, just an intriguing comparison. You cant be against illegal immigration in one country and be for it in another. If you're seeing an "invasion" at Mexicans illegally crossing the border to do meniel jobs how do you think Iraqis feel three years under a brutal foreign occupation and a vichy style puppet regime.
You cant have it both ways.

>>I dont recall reading about Native American Indians handing green cards to those on the Mayflower, do you?

Then that goes for you, too. I see you're so broken up about it that you thought you might as well participate despite your grief and sense of injustice towards Native Americans...

>>so how many illegal Irish, Russian and east European immigrants get the bullet first and questions later?

Perhaps, if you had grown up here you would have had American History classes and would have learned how Irish, Italian and Russians were routinely rounded up, summarily deported and even worse in large numbers that would shock people today. Ever hear of Anarchism? It was the terrorism of the Age of Progress and the Guilded Age. Get some knowledge.

>>thats the sort of work ethic lazy whites and blacks can learn from.

Who says South Asians can't be racist SOBs, too??

>>Then that goes for you, too.<<

No it doesnt, considering that I didnt distribute pox ridden blankets, nor am I a part of some group of armed thugs hunting Mexicans at the border.

>>
Perhaps, if you had grown up here you would have had American History classes and would have learned how Irish, Italian and Russians were routinely rounded up, summarily deported and even worse in large numbers that would shock people today. Ever hear of Anarchism? It was the terrorism of the Age of Progress and the Guilded Age. Get some knowledge.<<

Wrong as usual cretin. We're not talking about a century ago. Theres a ton illegal east European immigrants in the US TODAY, especially after the break up of the Soviet Union, I dont see anyone demanding they they be rounded up and deported. I'll tell you why : because they're white. Grow up and get an education.

>>Who says South Asians can't be racist SOBs, too??<<

No where near as useless lazy trailer trash SOBs who blame their all problems on immigrants. How typical of the breed.....

>>Wrong as usual cretin. We're not talking about a century ago.

AND...

>>Wrong as usual cretin. We're not talking about a century ago.

...But, that occured a century ago, so why the incongruities? And, lie I said, if you think America is land stolen from the Indians, can't you possibly act with integrity and not be a part of this "great theft". Opps, I forgot, its OK for you and I don't suppose economic opportunity is what brought you here. That's fine, there's no law against that nor should there be. But, while you're in my country benefiting from all that has happened and accomplished by those before you, how about you get education in our history, culture and ideals and not talk with you foot so far in your mouth...

Meant to paste: "that I didnt distribute pox ridden blankets" ...But, that occured a century ago

>>Theres a ton illegal east European immigrants in the US TODAY... I dont see anyone demanding they they be rounded up and deported. I'll tell you why : because they're white.

No, I'll tell YOU why: because
* Russians didn't hold hostages in Tehran
* Russians didn't bomb Marine Barracks in Beirut
* Russians weren't the enemy in the Gulf War
* Russians didn't attack Khobar Towers
* Russians don't blow themselves up at cafes
* Those weren't 19 Russians who attacked American cities on Sept 11

Get it? Got it? Good.

That's the social reality we Muslim must live with: we resemble the enemy in many superficial ways and for you the resemblance is more than skin-deep. Its NOT fair, but it just is the way it is and your racial bigotry and anti-americanism surely fuels the very bad perceptions about Muslims. Thanks a million.

>>"that I didnt distribute pox ridden blankets" ...But, that occured a century ago<<

So?

>>And, lie I said, if you think America is land stolen from the Indians, can't you possibly act with integrity and not be a part of this "great theft"<<

I dont "think" it, its in the history books! Are you disputing this? You're the one lacking in an education.

>>Opps, I forgot, its OK for you and I don't suppose economic opportunity is what brought you here.<<

Yeah its ok for me because I'm not out huntng Mexicans and trying to blame immigrants for the ills in this country.

>>But, while you're in my country benefiting from all that has happened and accomplished by those before you, how about you get education in our history, culture and ideals and not talk with you foot so far in your mouth...<<

Dont get nativist on me buddy. How about you take off your hood so you can hear it loud and clear : Its not just your country. I dont owe you or any person anything for my hardwork. This is a lazy right wing rhetoric on your part which has little to do with subject of immigration. Dont pull your stupid protectionism on me. You need far more education then I do because you dont even know the basics of your own history. You're pathetic. The real I believe was illegal immigration. Now if you were remotely serious about it, you would have built a wall at the border a long time ago, you would have gone after the big business which hires illegal immigrants, you would have stressed self-suffiency amongst the lazy masses of this country who refuse to do jobs which are "undesirable." But no, you're going allow yourself to be manipulated by crooked politicians and racist reactionaries who are more then happy to blame the little guy.

>>No, I'll tell YOU why: because
* Russians didn't hold hostages in Tehran
* Russians didn't bomb Marine Barracks in Beirut
* Russians weren't the enemy in the Gulf War
* Russians didn't attack Khobar Towers
* Russians don't blow themselves up at cafes
* Those weren't 19 Russians who attacked American cities on Sept 11<<

Ah! So you ARE for illegal immigration then as long as they dont do the sort of activities on your highly reductionist list. Mexicans didnt do that stuff either so why are you worried about their illegals, and not the Russians? Nice list by the way. I have a list as well but if I post that up you'll wipe out the cleanex box crying.

>>Get it? Got it? Good.<<

No I dont "get" it. You're avoiding the facts by hiding behind a false analogy. You're a racist hypocrite. I cant believe you would stoop to such foolishness.

>>
That's the social reality we Muslim must live with: we resemble the enemy in many superficial ways and for you the resemblance is more than skin-deep. Its NOT fair, but it just is the way it is and your racial bigotry and anti-americanism surely fuels the very bad perceptions about Muslims. Thanks a million.<<

What you mean "we" ? I'm not white, nor am I an American exceptionalist. I'm not the one who consistently lies through his teeth on Iraq. I'm not the one who thinks its ok to invade another country yet go bonkers anytime a Mexican croses the border. I'm not an apologist and liar for state sponsored terrorism so there is no "we" here. I really wish Shahid didnt delete your comment in that other thread where you compared me to Zarquawi(I wouldnt be caught dead with that ridiculous redneck mustache of his), it shows what you truly are and how you deal with criticism and just plain hard facts. Your consistent war mongering and racist justification for such makes you the biggest anti-american on this website. So go peddle your stupid labels elsewhere, preferably some putrid neocon
forum where your regressionist and hitlarien malarky will be entertained. Dont do the rest of us "hajis" any favors pal.
Dont forget the May 1st walk out and bring your jiongoism with you.

> Mexicans didnt do that stuff either

Since you like to talk about 100 years ago, "Remember the Alamo!"

>You're a racist hypocrite.

Weren't you the one who said, "useless lazy trailer trash SOBs." Sounds pretty racist to me.

>>That's the social reality we Muslim must live with: we resemble the enemy in many superficial ways...
>What you mean "we" ? I'm not white,

Well...the terrorists that did all those things weren't white. They were Arabic. I know that you aren't white but if you look Arabic, then you "resemble the enemy in many superficial way."

>go peddle your stupid labels elsewhere,

Neocon
jingoism
exceptionalism
regressionist
hitlarien

These are just 5 words that you used in this one post. Historically, you seem to like using a lot of buzz word labels too. Just be careful not to call me a secularist or I will accuse you of being Bill O'Reilly.

You're certifiably nuts. I've never said anything about deporting people. I actually think we should extend citizenship to this group of people. I live in an area with ultra-high numbers of legal and even illegal Mexican immigrants and most of them have all the traditionally-considered American ideals and would make fine citizens. I see them actually raising American flags and appreciating the country where they can prosper and be free from class constraints as in Mexico. If our culture and traditions are renewed by thier presence, heck I'll speak Spanish and English, why not! And, nice try dodging my critiques of you and projecting your fears onto me by continually using "you" to attach to me the most outrageous charges. Truly certifiable. And yes, you DO owe previous generations because without them, the sea money you love swimming in over here in my country simply wouldn't exist. If America was still all teepees and horses, you would still have come?! Argue on the ideas and not the fearmongering and charactures of individuals.

>>Weren't you the one who said, "useless lazy trailer trash SOBs." Sounds pretty racist to me.<<

That was in response to the similar remark about South Asians, even though I'm not South Asian. Seems like Gomer can dish it out but cant take it. Theres no denying that the anti-immigrant crowd is full of people who are clearly racists concerned mainly with the skin color. If Immigration reformists are serious about their goals they're going to have to boot the criminals out of the movement eg. Vdare, American Patrol, the "Minutemen" etc....

>>Well...the terrorists that did all those things weren't white. They were Arabic. <<

They werent Mexican either, so why selectivily go after them and spare the Russians? Cant have it both ways.

>>These are just 5 words that you used in this one post. Historically, you seem to like using a lot of buzz word labels too. Just be careful not to call me a secularist or I will accuse you of being Bill O'Reilly.<<

I wasnt referring to you. The "buzz words" are true given the totality of his racist comments and lies.

>>You're certifiably nuts.<<

You're certifiably a war mongering hyporite and a liar.

>>And yes, you DO owe previous generations because without them, the sea money you love swimming in over here in my country simply wouldn't exist.<<

LOL, I guess this goes hand in hand with my "beverly hills office." Better then swimming in blood I'd say. Its not just your country, and no, nobody owes you anything.


>>And, nice try dodging my critiques of you and projecting your fears onto me by continually using "you" to attach to me the most outrageous charges.<<

Better put on your bifocals buddy because I didnt dodge anything, but destroyed your nonsense. How about I make a list of all the wonder things gringo mauraders are responsible for? The fact of the matter is you call anybody who doesnt buy your exceptionalist bovine gas theories an "anti-American." Yeah, come up with something else besides the horse manure you're fed of the AM dial. Your motto is "Do as I say, not as I do." As I've told you before, you're not above the law, nor does hiding behind a uniform justify such criminality.

>>If America was still all teepees and horses, you would still have come?!<<

Sure, why not? Unlike those who signed over 400 treaties, broke them and "liberated" them.