"Uh, sir?"

"Yes?"

"You can't wear that in the pool."

"My shirt?"

"Yes, you cannot wear that in the pool."

This was the conversation I had with a worker at a public pool in the summer of 2006 in the Mediterranean Coast of... Egypt. The worker expressly forbid me from wearing a shirt into the pool. The other, practically naked, people were fine they way they were, but if I wanted to wear a shirt out of modesty, I was forbidden. In a Muslim country! In fact, back in 1993, my family and I were vacationing in Sharm El Sheikh when a German tourist smugly said to my sister, who was wearing hijab in the pool, "This is not a washing machine for your clothes!" Again, in a Muslim country!

So, I have an inkling of understanding of what various Muslim women in Europe are going through when they are banned from swimming in a pool with a so-called "Burqini," or a long, loose-fitting wetsuit with a hood. Recently in France, a convert to Islam named Carole was banned from going to a public pool in Paris because the rules forbid swimming while clothed. She is contesting the rule in the French court system. In an Italian town, swim with a "Burqini" and you are fined 500 Euros ($700). Defending the stance, Piedmont mayor Gianluca Buonanno said, "The sight of a 'masked woman' could disturb small children, not to mention problems of hygiene"

"Hygiene" is frequently cited as justification for banning Muslim women from swimming in public pools with their clothes. As a physician, this is complete nonsense. Human skin is as un-hygienic as any piece of clothing. It is full of bacteria, some even potentially deadly pathogens. In fact, if a "Burqini" is washed and then worn right away, it should be pretty clean; much cleaner than human skin. Add to this the fact that, if there are open sores on the skin which may ooze bodily fluids such as blood, this may be an even bigger danger to the other swimmers in the pool. Clothing, at least, could cover up any sores that are open on the skin.

No, "hygiene" is a poor excuse for barring Muslim women from swimming in their "Burqinis." More likely it is plain old bias against Islam. The mayor of Piedmont did not bother to hide his bias against Islam, talking about the sight of a "masked woman" frightening small children. He even added: "We don't have to be tolerant all the time." Yet, there should be no objection to someone who wants to swim with a little more clothing than a two-piece bikini or basically underwear that is called "swimwear." Why aren't those clothes "un-hygienic"? If everyone is free to be practically naked in a public pool, why aren't Muslim women (or men, for that matter) free to be modest in a public pool? Many of the Olympic swimmers wear full length swimsuits that look very similar to the Burqini. What is the difference? There is none, except in the minds of those who do not like to see Islam or Muslims.

Then there is the argument, from some Muslim scholars, that this should not be an issue because Muslim women should not swim in a public pool in the first place. Why is this so? They may justify it by claiming, correctly so in part, that wet clothing is tight and sticky to the body and will reveal body parts and not be modest. Well, the exact same goes for men who wear swimwear. In fact, the Burqini is a brilliant idea, and something such as this to allow Muslim women to enjoy an occasional dip in the pool like their male husbands, brothers, fathers, uncles, etc. was long overdue. Islam is egalitarian, and rather than say "Women should not swim at all," there should be a creative solution. The Burqini is one such solution. And by the way, men are also commanded by God to dress modestly, and this commandment extends to the swimming pool as well.

That is why, with her faults and shortcomings notwithstanding, the United States of America is truly an amazing place. Here, I have never been harassed for wearing a shirt into the swimming pool. Not once. Neither have my wife, sisters, aunts, cousins, or the like. Here, if you want to go to the pool fully clothed, there is no problem at all. If we are asked, we say it is for religious reasons, and it is always allowed, and in some cases, even respected. Unlike in Europe, religion in the Unites States still commands a modicum of respect and veneration. In fact, my family and I have been harassed much more in Egypt for wearing clothes into the swimming pool than in the United States. Yet, not all of Europe is biased against the Burqini. In Oslo, city authorities have allowed the swimsuit. "Some people say they need to cover up," said Jan Zander, responsible for sports and recreation. "We think it is important that those who live in this city can bathe and use the pools." He is exactly correct, and it is hoped that more cities in Europe follow Oslo's lead.

One last point, Piedmont mayor Gianluca Buonanno told AFP, "Imagine a western woman bathing in a bikini in a Muslim country. The consequences could be decapitation, prison or deportation. We are merely prohibiting the use of the burqini." That is patently false. There are some areas of Sharm El Sheikh and other resorts of the Sinai Peninsula in Egypt where the tourists - mostly Europeans - are not only barely clothed but, in some instances, topless on the shores of the Red Sea. Nothing whatsoever is done to them by the Egyptians. I have witnessed this personally. In fact, the Egyptians tend to look at those wishing to swim fully clothed as strange, even if they are Muslims like they are. Those who ban the Burqini should simply say, "We don't like Muslims swimming in our pools." Any other justification simply doesn't hold water.

(Photo: Giorgio Montersino)

>>Clothing, at least, could cover up any sores that are open on the skin.

I hate to be the spoiler, but perhaps life guards want to be able to see who has oozing sores so they can keep them out of the pool??

Anyway, I don't think a burkini is much different than a diving suit. So, its really a cultural thing: swimming is one of the few spaces in Western culture where traditionally, less clothing was perfectly acceptable. But, liberty should allow people to wear what they want in public pools. If not, then just hit the beaches which are not regulated in the same ways!

The whole issue is becoming abother political flag to be waved on all sides. And yet, every public swimming pool and gymnasium pool I have ever attended since I was old enough to notice has had signs saying,"No cut-offs, shorts, T-shirts tank tops, only regulation swimwear allowed in pool." If the burqini is constructed of appropriate and same material that other swumsuits are constructed from that allows the person to shower and clease themselves before entering the pool, then why would there be a problem? Unless the lifeguard wants to make a cultural statement. If the burqini is just close fitting clothing of streetwear material that can hold bacteria and carry it into a pool, then why should it be allowed and the cut-offs and T-shirts banned? If the purpose of the hijab is to cover and obscure a woman's "charms" they what is the reasoning for wearing skin tight clothing in a pool where those clothes become even more form fitting? Why are tight clothes shunned by many Muslim women as a sign of hipocrasy if they are also wearing hijab, but then the tight fitting wet burqini is okay? So who exactly is the demographic of women wearing the burqini in a mixed pool? The anthropologist in me is fascinated by this nebulous new set.

Amazing how something can be acceptable in a professional event such as the Olympics, but be intolerable in public pools for the "hygienic" reasons...

@Aken: most burkinis I've seen have a small skirt-like cloth fastened to the waist area. This keeps the skin-tighness from outlining her behind and crotch. It doesn't do much for the chestor hips, though. But, its hard to hide sizes even in regular clothing, too.

most burkinis I've seen have a small skirt-like cloth fastened to the waist area.>>>>

Like the "plus size" or more modest regulation suits we've all seen for years. I have no opinion on this one way or the other beyond the obviouisness of the issue becoming way more than about a swimsuit. The bottom line, whether people want to peel back the reality or not, and I invite everyone here who does not already despise me to do so now. But the real reason Muslim men defend the hijab to the death is for fear that it's removal will destroy the hypersexualization that all women enjoy when "hidden mysteriously." And it cannot be denied that what is hidden becomes tantalizing and mysterious and curiosity and fantasy run wild on every woman behind a niqab about what a beauty she must be.
And the real fear behind the west's horror of their percieved encroachment of Islam and the dreaded "Shariah law" is they fear their booze might get taken away. And of course all humans must run up a self righteous flag in defense of their secret passions. I have read more than one account by Iranian women, fashionable westernized Iranian women who couldn't care less about religion but who ADORE the chador. Not for modesty or because it "frees them" from being sex objects. Quite the object. All day long they walk around hidden and at night at the large glamorous mixed cocktail parties they all attend, the dazling sexualization of the hidden fruit now unveiled is over the top. They talked about originally hating it when it was first imposed but now loving it because it pushes the ritual boundaries of social interaction into highly charged areas. For everyone, not just people looking for sexual encounters. Makes sense too. And I can't help but wonder how much of that is coming to play for other Muslims as well. I cannot believe that 1.8 billion people are truly that clsoe to sainthood that they would freak out over a piece of cloth.

@Akenanubis >>fear that it's removal will destroy the hypersexualization that all women enjoy when "hidden mysteriously." <<

I'm sorry but what are you talking about? How does the fetish of a select group of men have anything to do with this issue? You're generalizing from anecdotal evidence and frankly it's pretty degrading to all women who choose to wear hijab (in whatever form it may be) purely out of devotion to God. If people decide to use a piece of cloth for their own motives, it's on them. But I think most women who observe hijab would like a little respect (from Muslims and non-Muslims) and are doing it to get exactly that. This is why the issue of ppl disrespecting them and their rights has become such a big deal.

Meh, Akenanubis may have a point. Lots of women around the world like to feel sexy no matter how pious they are. Most of them call it "looking presentable" but its just a code word, me thinks. And what better way of increasing one's apparent desirability than to wrap it up and introduce the element of mysetery? Mystery is the greatest aphrodisiac in the world. And, its been many a man's experience that women often say one thing but respond positively to something compeltely different which betrays what they really think versus what they are told good girls are supposed to think.

This is a valid line of thought that Aken has brought up. Sorry if I sound so cynical, but I've rarely met people who solely do things for God. Sure, some women undoubtedly wear it for God's sake, but given the private and public contradictions of many hijabi's behavior, I tend to see much merit in her analysis.

Lib Fun ..... the complexity of the human psyche is generally far more complex and obscured even from people themselves that they or we percieve. Thatr's where the fun is. Things are seldom as they appear at face value, and my comments were not merely a few personal anecdotal observations but. If you disagree, you are more than welcome to do so.

Thanks Omar. And while I certainly don't believe all hijabis or all any group of people cane disolve in generalization, I have heard SO MUCH discussion by women themselves about how sexy they fel in hijab knowing men are wondering about them under their baggy clothes. Who is being served here? And it's not just about hijab. People in all faiths fall into the frequent temptation of feeling that the most obious and often visual trappings of faith, often when they shoulder as a martyrous "burden" is somehow all the work they need to do on themselves to adhere to the deepest truths of their religion. May God free us all of the hidden hypocrasies we suffer from,

Akenanubis may have a point.
- Posted by OmarG


Wrong. Aken has SEVERAL points.

There's a good explanation for the lifeguard's behavior. Egypt, sad to say is not a "Muslim Country". A Muslim Country is governed by the Sharia, the Divine Law. Egypt is a Western Style Nation-State, governed by the law of man. It merely has a majority Muslim population.

I am also concerned by a comment I saw from one of the members here. The claim was made by a female that she knew what all Muslim men felt. This is an illogical over-generalization, unless the Sister has truly met a large percentage of roughly 900 million men. More troubling, humans have not been granted the gift of telepathy by Allah (SWT). Only He can see into the hearts, and the Sister's statement comes uncomfortably close to claiming to know the unseen.

I feel inspired by the manifestation of piety shown by a Sister who covers herself. I live in New York, and in these days of hatred, when I see a Hijabi Sister get onto a subway car I make it a point to board the same car. It's NOT because I'm trying to catch a glimpse of her neck, and Allah knows best.

Apparently, nudist beaches get very aggro when people swim with costumes! Its absurd, but everyone is trying to maintaing other peoples ideologies, rather than expressing their own. I swim with a t-shirt and that's that. If a lifeguard complains, tell him to grow up.

alkh3myst >>> Egypt, sad to say is not a "Muslim Country". A Muslim Country is governed by the Sharia, the Divine Law.

Egypt is a Muslim country because Muslim people live in it.. Period. The government of Egypt may not please your Islamic sensibilities, but the Islamic resistance of the Muslim brotherhood doesn't please my Islamic sensibilities either. Law of Man, Law of God, its all relative to the person in the end.

There are two types of contemporary manifestation of hijaab of young people in my country. The wealthy girls who go to private "Islamic" schools. And the conservative families who take their daughters out of school and place them in madrassah. There are other manifestations, but you have to distinguish between what you want to see and what is actually happening.

Lib Fundo >>> You're generalizing from anecdotal evidence and frankly it's pretty degrading to all women who choose to wear hijab (in whatever form it may be) purely out of devotion to God.

I agree with you. Regardless of how we socialise the hijaab, in an environment of free choice, its worn firstly and foremostly because it fits the Islamic social norm of acceptable dress. Motives like "hypersexualisation" or "a little respect" are subjective and completely unnecessary for what's a fundamental Civil Rights issue like this. All people should have access to public resources that are for the benefit of the community.

I'm always amazed at how people take offence to modesty in the public sphere, but celebrate public nudity like its innofensive and progressive.

Ghulam, I take no offense at public modesty. Perhaps I am overly interested in the psychological and anthropological/cultural elements of this and countless other features of human society. I do not advocate any restriction beyond those of the norm in any given society. I would object to full face covering in the US because of the generally unrestricted society we have. Not because I want to see these pious women's faces and I am a secret lesbian, but because there are quite a number of people within the criminal element who would use the face covering as a convenient means to avoid detection. This is why one cannot wear a ski mask on the street. Obscuring identity. If one cannot bear to have their face shown in public, and I support that if that is their desire, then live in a country where that is the norm. Hijab that merely covers the head and hair does not obscure identity and any objection to others wearing it is clearly a cultural statement of objection to the presence of "others" on the objector's midst. I am rather fascinated though about the hair covering. How many of us have truly seen anybody's hair that was so fabulous that we were destabilized from self control and succumbed to a lust that drove us into the arms of shaytan? Hair. One of the advantages of the western style of society is that people are pretty much invisible on the streets of a place like NYC for example. And anybody patrolling the streets "looking at people" with a lustful gleam in their eye is pretty much a case for pathology, not the majority.

>>> How many of us have truly seen anybody's hair that was so fabulous that we were destabilized from self control and succumbed to a lust that drove us into the arms of shaytan?

Thats a very subjective notion though. It attracts attention. Many women spend substantial amounts of time and money grooming their hair. And the Sunnah of the Prophet SAW clearly advocates a public modesty that doesn't draw attention to our physical attractiveness.

P.S. Last ten days of Ramadaan comin up guys. Hope everyone is geared up for these auspicious nights. Work is hectic on my side but I don't want to lose out on the opportunities of the month.

Many women spend substantial amounts of time and money grooming their hair. And the Sunnah of the Prophet SAW clearly advocates a public modesty that doesn't draw attention to our physical attractiveness.
- Posted by Ghulam

They couldn't be doing this for their husbands, and covering themselves while in public?

Many women spend substantial amounts of time and money grooming their hair. And the Sunnah of the Prophet SAW clearly advocates a public modesty that doesn't draw attention to our physical attractiveness.
- Posted by Ghulam


And some women cant be bothered to even do much more then brush their hair before venturing out in public...yet still have pretty nice looking hair. Hair is hair is hair...23 years a Muslim living in a Muslim country and I still do not understand this obsession with hair. So so soooooooo many issues Muslims have to deal with from the moment they wake until the sleep and yet seemingly all of these issues can be traced back to one core concept....some Muslim woman somewhere showed her hair. *gasp* the end of the world is coming for sure.

Public swimming pools dont want obvious displays of Islam (i.e. Muslim woman covered) swimming in their pools for one simple basic fact. They are forced that Muslims do indeed "live among us" and this is viewed by many as the beginning of the end. Muslims "taking over" is akin to some sort of encroachment of blacks into an all white neighborhood. Eventually the whites will be forced to move simply because they dont want to be thought of as living in a "low class" neighborhood...the generalizating being that blacks bring down the value and safety etc anywhere they happen to congregate.

Muslims are the new "blacks" and nobody wants them moving into their neighborhood. Simple.

@coolred: but, they have a point. When one group comes in and acts as if their women are superior because they cover thier hair, it introduces tension. Albeit, most of that tension is unspoken, but the underlying message the current residents recieve is: "Our women are modest; you all are whores who want men to F you by shoeing your hair. We will never be like you, even though we do want to do good business with you if you will let us shyster you." I'd move, too, just so I can live in an untense neighborhood.

coolred38 >>> Public swimming pools dont want obvious displays of Islam (i.e. Muslim woman covered) swimming in their pools for one simple basic fact. They are forced that Muslims do indeed "live among us"..

Exactly. It is a pure case of identity discrimination. Simply put. Racism.

OmarG >>> When one group comes in and acts as if their women are superior because they cover thier hair, it introduces tension.

There is always tension of ideas in the public space. Your imagined argument is a matter of perspectives. But in a liberal society, ideas must run their course and people must choose between better and worse. This democracy of yours has a basis for operation. Why do you constantly override it when it comes to Muslims?

And your "underlying message", probably isn't the message at all. You lay the condescending tone quite thickly for people using a public facility. Are we gonna force fat girls into bikinis now and disallow gowns .. lol

coolred >>> Hair is hair is hair...23 years a Muslim living in a Muslim country and I still do not understand this obsession with hair.

That's great. You have an opinion about it. But that doesn't change a Muslims rights. I was only responding to the notion that we know why women really wear these garments, and we can use that to legitimize limiting their religious freedom. Well .. Its a no sell for me.

Which country are you staying in anyways?

Omar G....well the feelings of superiority can go both ways. Covered women can see themselves as superior to the uncovered and of course the uncovered see themselves as superior to the covered. Depends on where your coming from.

Ghulam...I did not mention the hair issue to negate the fact that Muslims have rights...of course they do...it just seems arbitrary to argue about their supposed rights to swim in a pool (or be denied that right) simply because of their dress when swimming itself is so far down the list on the rights Muslim women are denied...both because of what they wear from the Western perspective...and who they are from the Eastern perspective. These same women clamoring for the right to swim fully covered apparently do give much thought to the women around the world who are silenced from a hell of a lot more than paddling around in a swimming pool. Those clamoring for swimming rights should also fight for other womens rights JUST TO BE WOMEN...in whatever Islamic country they happen to be suffering in. Muslims should view each other as brothers and sister right?

Anyhow, maybe I didnt express myself too well. I have a serious cold and bad attitude just now. Im in Bahrain btw.

oops...meant to say...dont give much thought to the women around the world...etc