Justice Felix Frankfurter once observed that it is neither law, religious creed nor ideology that holds America together; it is, rather, a "binding tie of cohesive sentiment." As a Jew, Frankfurter understood that while "sentiment" was not the most stately concept it had its clear advantages. For, while not totally immune to abuses of power, sentiment is far more resistant than law, theology or ideology. A tyrannical government might condemn today's saint as tomorrow's heretic, but it cannot remove feelings of solidarity and empathy from the hearts and minds of those who see him as one of their own. Not only, however, was Justice Frankfurter a Jew, he was an immigrant. And this too surely helped him see the importance of "cohesive sentiment," even over such lofty concepts as law, equality or democracy.

Muslims too should now be learning about the importance of sentiment. Recently, Chicago attorney Mazen Asbahi was forced to retire as Barack Obama's Muslim outreach advisor, after it was learned that in 2000 he briefly served on the board of an Islamic investment fund with an allegedly "fundamentalist" Imam who was recently named an un-indicted co-conspirator in a case against alleged Hamas fund-raisers. Of course, everyone understood the game that was being played here: Obama's outreach to Muslim-Americans was about to be contorted into an exercise of aiding and abetting Muslim terrorists! In order to preempt this unfounded insinuation, Mr. Asbahi felt obliged to resign, in order, in his words, "to avoid distracting from Barack Obama's message of change."

Most Muslim observers have decried this fiasco as a blatant case of "guilt by association." I think the matter goes deeper. After all, the so-called "fundamentalist" Imam with whom Asbahi was alleged to have ties was found guilty of no wrong-doing. With what guilt, then, was Asbahi supposed to be associated? Rather than any wrong-doing, Asbahi was simply being associated with being a Muslim, the same 'charge' with which some have tried to 'smear' Senator Obama. Parties aiming to exclude Muslims from the American political process simply found a way to strip Asbahi's religious affiliation of all innocence, thereby inviting non-Muslim Americans to give full vent to their anti-Muslim phobia, under the cover of a would-be justification.

The real story in all of this, however, is that this tactic worked. And here we return to Justice Frankfurter's point about sentiment. Muslim-Americans are vulnerable to the attacks of their detractors because they are not sufficiently bound to their fellow Americans by enough "cohesive sentiment" to place a proper burden of proof on their accusers. The way to that sentiment, however, is neither through simple protest nor acts of ostensible public altruism. The way to that sentiment is through becoming a part of the American story, a story of powerful truths, lies and contradictions that have destined America to struggle, to her dying breath, to find that balance between enough remembering and enough forgetting to point her towards redemption. It is a story of America's quest to rid herself of the vile habit of violating her own principles and creating "problem peoples" who fall outside the reach of her lofty ideals. From the founding of the republic and Thomas Jefferson's "We hold these truths to be self-evident…", this quest -- more than anything else – has defined us as Americans. Indeed, this is the struggle that generates the "cohesive sentiment" that binds Americans as a people.

This is why Americans are so excited about the candidacy of Barack Obama: Obama holds out a chance for redemption. Amidst this excitement, however, Americans must remain mindful of the evil of which we have proved ourselves so capable of perpetrating. Muslim-Americans, meanwhile, must come to see that American history, whether we like it or not, is now our history, and that we cannot accept the bounties of her present without sharing responsibility for her past. And we must understand the difference between being a part of American society and being a part of the American story. To be part of the American story is to strive as mightily as other Americans in pursuit of American redemption.

Thus far, however, Muslims remain outside the American story, which is why, despite their positive contributions to society, they seldom enlist empathy when they are jailed, deported or discriminated against. Hopefully, however, it will not be long before Muslims come to understand this. Once they do, while guilt by association may continue, Muslims will be able to fight back. For in this they will be joined by others.

And just for the record, sgmiller, as one of your Muslim neighbours (I am assuming you have no real ones by the "" marks around your answer), I can say that I am quite UNHAPPY that the US helped boot Russia out of Afghanistan. Because of their meddling in business that was not their own, Afghanistan is a ruined country. If the Afghan's wanted Russia out, they would have to do it on their own, as all other people who have struggled for independence have done since the inception of civilization. And I think a fair number of them would've rather that happened, or didn't happen, because it would have been on their terms. Instead, we have the Taleban, an illiterate bunch of radical in charge o f a country at hostage, due in no small part to the interference and then abandonment of Afghanistan in the 80's.
Ditto for Kuwait...though you might be surprised to know that it was in fact American that gave S. Hussein the green light to invade Kuwait.
And as far as Bosnia goes, I can only say one word: Srebrenica. You can Google it.
And sadly/lastly regarding Somalia, I saw a show last night about a 750 pound man. He's not from Somalia. He's from the midwest.
It's hard to put your starving kids to bed at night knowing people like that are out there. It's 1Pm where I live, which means 15,000 kids have already died of starvation. I wonder how that 750 lb guy is doing today?
It's not hard to hate America for her excesses. But it is wrong.

"sgmiller, you realize that the position from which Mazen Abashi resigned was the Muslim outreach coordinator, don't you? Seems prudent to me that the person who serves in that capacity BE Muslim. The fact that he was replaced by an "acceptable" Muslim drives home a good point: only people who are considered "marginally" Muslim or "mainstream" can expect to have a voice in a campaign. "

I think it is more reasonable to say that in the post 911 climate, any candidate for such a position is going to be under scrutiny for any connections to terrorism and/or groups which are believed to be associated with terrorism and that includes Palestinian groups such as Hamas which like it or not are proscribed by U.S. law.

"Just another case of Americans demanding that they define Islam, and what is acceptable in it, rather than Muslim Americans."

I believe it is reasonable for all Americans to have a voice in people who are to play a role in our governments. Its not as if Asbahi was being appointed as a leader of an Islamic organization. He was playing a role in the campaign of possibly the next President and could plausibly have been viewed as a candidate for a post in that administration.

"Muslims are no supposed to see any kind of conspiracy about people who are asked to resign because of some made up association with a violent group "

This is an enormous leap of logic. According to public documents, Asbahi had a real connection to an Islamic group which the Wall Street Journal thought was significant enough to send the campaign a question about. I don't see anything that was "made-up."

"our government asks the entire world to turn a blind eye to the atrocities committed in such places as Iraq. "

I don't see that anybody is being asked to ignore atrocities.

"It is because the violence of that particular group is done with some kind of wrongly labeled Islamic virtue in mind that Abashi stepped down, not because the group was simply violent"

I am sorry but I don't understand this.

"Let's not forget here that in the US certain types of violence perpetuated against certain groups is still very much accepted by the American people and the media, "

Which groups?

"I can say that I am quite UNHAPPY that the US helped boot Russia out of Afghanistan. Because of their meddling in business that was not their own, Afghanistan is a ruined country."

This was never the point of that discussion which was that U.S. actions were not directed for or against Muslims as Muslims.

"...you might be surprised to know that it was in fact American that gave S. Hussein the green light to invade Kuwait. "

That is actually an old idea that has been denied many times by the people concerned. I have never seen any actual proof of this theory. It pretty much makes no sense as what could possibly have been a motivation for such a thing?

"as far as Bosnia goes, I can only say one word: Srebrenica. "

Srebrenica was a Dutch responsibility. In fact, the U.S. tried to get the Europeans to take more aggressive action throughout Bosnia and ended up taking action on its own when that didn't happen (simply put). It makes more sense to be angry at the Europeans who waited for the Americans before doing anything at all

"as one of your Muslim neighbours (I am assuming you have no real ones by the "" marks around your answer)"

Not that it really matters but I have several Muslim neighbors and will be leaving shortly for the Arab MIddle East.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,440340,00.html

I read this interview with Bassam, and I find that your association of this man with moderate views rather ironic. Considering he expects Muslims to discard Propogation, our right to defend ourselves and Religious Edicts .. in order to be more European. What religion would there be left if it was not worth propogating or following or defending?

>> Pluralism and tolerance are pillars of modern society. That has to be accepted. But pluralism doesn't just mean diversity. It means that we share the same rules and values, and are still nevertheless different. Islam doesn't have this idea. And Islam also has no tradition of tolerance.<<

I am completely offended by this statement, and I'm supposed to accept this mans political analysis? Yes I can debate it, but it certainly is not the mainstream Muslim view of Islam. This man paints the most radical view of Islam (as radicals have), and then calls it normal. I think you're missing the broader Muslim view.

Why do you keep on bringing up the wars and the interventions? Especially with the topic under consideration. You sound like FOX newsreel. They hate us because we're so nice. And why isn't the editor deleting DrM's posts? Have you iunformed him of the offence?

Angola, Vietnam, El-Salvador, Phillipines, Afghanistan, the 6 day war .. you need to be educated on the facts. But you're still harping. Why are you still harping. Noone here agrees with you about the saintly version of the U S of A. Actually, check for yourself, how many social activists, grassroots democratic movements and human righst movements actually support the USA.

Don't mind racist ol' sg...he just tends to be wrong and more then a tad bit disingenuous very often. Too bad he just can't get away with here.

FYI Bassam Tibi(a failed secularist who recently got the short end of the same European anti-Muslim fanatics he once appeased)has nothing to do with the invention phony word "Islamist." It was invented by French colonialists in Algeria and popularized by the very Judeofascist Daniel Pipes, a failed academic. Credentials indeed. You have none and neither so the selective sycophants you've cited. No dear Shlomo, you don't get to "invent" stupid little smear words to define me and my fellow Muslims. Not to say your revisionist nonsense about the Balkans and Iraq. Try reading a history book for once.

So far you have taught us that ...
Arabs are not Semitic
Jewish Neocons have nothing to do with the criminal invasion and occupation of Iraq.
Its an act "anti-semetism" to say a word against Israel and its amen corner in the US.
In short, you've become a joke without a punch line.

>Not that it really matters but I have several Muslim neighbors<

Ofcourse you do, I'll bet your parents are Muslim as well.

>and will be leaving shortly for the Arab MIddle East.<

Not as a tourist I'd reckon.

Ghulam:

"I read this interview with Bassam, and I find that your association of this man with moderate views rather ironic"

I didn't associate him with anything other than with being am example of one Muslim scholar who employs the term "Islamism." I was told that no Muslim uses this terms which is of course nonsense.

"Why do you keep on bringing up the wars and the interventions?"

I don't keep bringing it up, its keeps being brought back. If you scroll up (does anybody do that?) you will see that this started only as a discussion about the impact of U.S foreign policy on Muslims. My only point was that such policy has nothing to do with muslims per se but I give up on trying to stay with the point.

"FYI Bassam Tibi(a failed secularist"

Well thats pretty much predictable. Lets see, your claim was that no Muslim uses the term "Islamist." Bassam Tibi is a well known-scholar who uses the term so of course you have to change the subject to attacking his character. I won't then bother to list other Muslims who uses the term because actually you are uninterested in actually staying with a point. I would assume that no Muslim who uses the term is a satisfactory Muslim to you so I guess what you meant to say was that no Muslim you agree with uses the term. What exactly would the point in debating that?

" Credentials indeed."

I guess you are right. His myriad academic and professional credentials are nothing in comparison to yours which are what exactly?

"So far you have taught us that .."

"Arabs are not Semitic" - you really think I said that..hallucinating again?

Jewish Neocons - yes some neo-conservatives who are Jewish supported the war in Iraq just as many other key players who were not Jewish did and, despite your antisemitism, is not evidence of anything other than that.

"dear Shlomo,"

Keep building on your record which is the only reason I keep up this thread.

"revisionist nonsense about the Balkans"

You are right...Sebrenica wasn't the Dutch responsibility and the Europeans did everything humanly possible to protect the Bosnians...I will try to find that history book you claim to have read.

" you don't get to "invent" stupid little smear words to define me and my fellow Muslims"

Gee, now I get credit for inventing the term "Islamism" and I guess Tibi and the rest of the Muslims who apply that term are not your "fellow Muslims" either. Your fellow Muslims must be only those who you deem to be "real Muslims". I wonder who else takes that approach?

"Of course you do, I'll bet your parents are Muslim as well."

Neighbors yes, several and in the area many...parents no.

"Not as a tourist I'd reckon."

How many times can a person be wrong and still keep at it?


"Don't mind racist ol' sg...he just tends to be wrong and more then a tad bit disingenuous very often. Too bad he just can't get away with here."

I think that is a good note on which to officially end my participation into this sojourn into anti-semitism and other assorted ravings. DrM has established himself for all the world to see and if he is happy with it then so be it. His style of argumentation is depressingly familiar and consists of various personal attacks , changing the subject midstream to avoid being caught in an error (eg "Islamism"), sweeping simple-minded world views which attempt to explain complex phenomenon with one-dimensional explanations about some group or another being responsible, in this case Jews (oops Zionists). Unfortunately, its exactly the kind of thinking style that racists and bigots employ and many groups, including Muslims, are at the receiving end. I tried hard to avoid responding in kind because I have the old-fashioned idea that if you claim to be against bigotry, you should avoid being a bigot yourself.

So I will let DrM continue here because I suspect he is the kind of person who thinks that having the last word is some kind of victory or means that he has prevailed.I must say I strongly suspect he has achieved little if anything of significance in his life since he seems to think that writing here is an achievement. Not to denigrate this site in particular but in the end, its just one of several million forum where this sort of dreary person finds a home.

So, its off to the MIddle East for me and the end of my participation here. I just can't wait to come back and find the clever insult about my assumed ethnicity which Dr.M has left for me. Let me give it a shot:

Farewell Schlomo, the East-European Khazar terrorist who thinks that Arabs aren't Semites and that Jews aren't responsible for the Iraq war.

See, I did your work for you...its isn't hard after all to think like you since its not really thinking.

your friend,

Schlomo

Sorry, forgot to sum up my original point because I got so lost in Dr M's ravings. Funny how that happens/ To whit:

1) Mazen Asbahi resigned after an Internet newsletter wrote about his membership on the boards of several U.S. Islamic organizations and the Wall Street Journal sent him a single email with questions about that.

2) There is no evidence that "Jews/Zionists" or any group in particular plotted to make this happen. (Dr. M's comments on a publication he never read and has no knowledge of are not the same thing as evidence).

I believe these are still the only facts that have ever been relevant to this thread. In retrospect, I should have just stayed with that and spared any future readers the experience of reading through this thread as if there were any chance of that! However, once again, its a common strategy of assorted bigots and ideologues to stray so far from the subject that the point gets lost because the subject is never really what they want to talk about. Its clear that Dr. M never had any real interest in why Asbahi resigned. I apologize for falling right into that trap!

>Well thats pretty much predictable. Lets see, your claim was that no Muslim uses the term "Islamist." Bassam Tibi is a well known-scholar who uses the term so of course you have to change the subject to attacking his character.<

You've lost to have the plot and now down to picking at straws, sg. A secularist like Tibi practices no religion(by his own admission, trying reading his works before jumping for joy), hence his credentials as a Muslim are non-existent. The word "islamist" was invented by Islamophobes, that was my point. Speaking of concocting bogus terms, "Jewist" just rolls off the tongue...

>I tried hard to avoid responding in kind because I have the old-fashioned idea that if you claim to be against bigotry, you should avoid being a bigot yourself.<

Not doing a good job of that are you? When all else fails, just yell "antisemite" and hold your breath.

"A secularist like Tibi practices no religion(by his own admission, trying reading his works before jumping for joy)"

On my way to the airport but I couldn't help one more look and saw that Dr. once again sounds off on things he knows less than nothing. Bassam Tibi in his own words:

"I am a practicing Muslim, I am a devout Muslim. The first thing I learned in my life was the Koran. Between the age of five and six, living in Damascus, I learned the Koran by heart. If you study the history of Damascus, you will see that my family, the Banu al-Tibi, descends from the Prophet. Members of my family were prominent qadis and muftis of Damascus from the 13th to the 19th century. So how can I be against Islam?
But I am criticizing political Islam. There are apologetic Muslims who say that political Islam, or Islamism, has nothing to do with Islam; this is not correct because political Islam grows from Islam. There are links and they have to be shown. But you can defend Islam against Islamism. I am not alone in believing this. I work with other Muslim reformers. One such individual is who lives in Cairo and was a judge. He wrote a book called L’islamMuhammad al-Ashmawy,isme contre l’islam [Islamism against Islam]. "

http://www.hudson.org/files/documents/Tibi Remarks1.doc

So he is not a practicing Muslim? Let me guess, he isn't practicing by your standards (pronouncing Takfir are we?) Clearly you know nothing about him or his beliefs. What a surprise and I am sure you are just a distinguished a Muslim as Dr. Tibi. You certainly have represented your community so well in these pages.

"You've lost to have the plot "
"When all else fails"

Not only are you an anti-Semite, ignorant of your fellow Muslims, and basically an all-around blowhard, blow hard but you are supremely confident in yourself as well. Funny how those things go together.

As usual, I will let the sane reader take a look at all this and see who keeps "losing the plot" which was, after all Mazen Asbahi, a story to which you have added less than nothing.

And on that note, my cab is at the airport and I bid you a most happy farewell as this East European, Khazar terrorist, Jewist, Schlomo wings off to the Mideast where I am actually quite happy to be. My wife would by hysterical to learn of your description of me!

>> Let me guess, he isn't practicing by your standards (pronouncing Takfir are we?)

I knew you were better placed to discuss our issues than you let on initially. Noones declaring takfeer. We're saying Tibi couldn't care less.

>> I didn't associate him with anything other than with being am example of one Muslim scholar who employs the term "Islamism."

We are 1.5 billion people with diverse backgrounds and diverse ideas. The one thing you can't do is pin down a "moderate" or an "extremist". I can not consider Tibis views moderate, because he has abandoned the foundational beliefs that hold whole communities and identities together. It's an extreme view.

I do agree with you regarding Islamism. There is such a thing. But with such a plethora of voices in our community, it is not fair to just label political Islam as a negative thing. Because political Islam is alot of things to alot of different people. In South Africa, political Islam played a major role in confronting racism within our communities and in the anti-apartheid struggle (also called terrorists, by the US government no less). The slave community in Cape Town suffered much duress to propogate Islam amongst their fellow slaves and natives to imbue values of equality amongst men in every way. Political Islam is almost like Zionism in other areas, because it attests to an inherited Muslim identity that has not been allowed place to establish itself in the modern world.

In the sixties, you could have labelled the black consciousness movements as communist, militant, liberal, racist etc. But there is no consistent way of categorising the movement, accept to say that is was a positive movement for the broad purposes it served. WE are currently in the same situation. I won't pretend that a US navy F16 pilot is somehow morally and ethically and politically superior to a suicide bomber. Heck, as upset as I can be, I can have pity for the suicide bomber. The F16 pilot gets paid a decent salary, has a reasonable life to return to and has political avenues to stand up against his societies evils. He chooses not too.

For a secularised and europeanised academic who won't take the personal ambitions and struggles of his fellow community into account, and is as much a voice for what most non-whites know as a notoriously opportunistic and cruel western establishment than he is for the poverty ridden and politically exhascerbated muslim community, it is easy for Tibie to say "integrate". Consider that there are voices in this world that don't fall into favour with the global western paradigm and don't want to.

Muslims build Masjids, support Zakaah bodies, espouse values of the Quraan amongst each other, seek social justice for others. We take our blessing of faith as precisely that. Not a burden to be offloaded with the European enlightenment and the MTv generation.

>> Farewell Schlomo, the East-European Khazar terrorist who thinks that Arabs aren't Semites and that Jews aren't responsible for the Iraq war.

You need to stop, if at least to lend the credibility to your arguments that they can have. Taunting others is not an effective way of others accepting your view. If you are considered irreverent, your views and your defence will be given the same weight. Your choice.

Yawn, I see sg is high on his own disingenuous nonsense again. Please curb your enthusiasm as I'm about to demolish your latest online ramblings. Bassam Tibi claiming to be a "practicing" Muslim means nothing to those of us familiar with his work. How many "practicing" Muslims do you know that actively discourage Muslims from practicing Islam like Tibi has done over the years?
Who better to host a "practicing Muslim" like Tibi then the Hudson Institute? That's the same Hudson Institute which is a member of a closely knit group of neoconservative policy institutes that frequently champion aggressive and Israel-centric U.S. foreign policies. It was founded in 1961 by several hardline Cold Warriors including Herman Kahn, a nuclear strategist famous for his failed efforts to develop "winnable" nuclear war strategies.
I don't know any practicing Muslims who proudly proclaim Judeofascist Orientalists like Bernard Lewis as their mentor. Good job shooting yourself in the foot there, Shlomo.

You're a racist hiding behind the smears of "anti-semetism," sg. Based on the nonsense I've read coming from you, its obvious you're the anti-Semite high on the Hasbara bandwagon. You're not a Semite, neither are the Khazar East Europeans you've been shilling for. Another day, another zionist stooge deflated.

Is "Shlomo" sgmillers name or is it derogatory as he says? Who are the Khazar East Europeans? What does it mean to shill for someone? A Zionist stooge? Are you a Ummah Stooge?

Your tone DrM is not just aggressive, it's also ugly. What's more scary isn't that you take a point of view (that sometimes has its merits) and in turn make it ugly, its that you don't really want others to grow from your point of view ... you really just want to humiliate others. The one consistent thing about your posts is that you truly want to decimate people who see the situation differently from you. You take alot of pride in humiliating others.

>Is "Shlomo" sgmillers name or is it derogatory as he says?<

Nope. Its a typical Jewish name which I use sarcastically to show the chosen ones that Sambos, "Islamists" and Hajis can play that game as well.

>Are you a Ummah Stooge?<

A member of the Ummah actually, just like you. Its rather obvious that SG is frothy mouthed zionist who can't stop screaming "anti-Semitic"(seems to think only Jews can be Zionists) while denying that Arabs are the largest group of Semitic people around.

>Your tone DrM is not just aggressive, it's also ugly.<

Correct, but only with ugly and aggressive people who insist on passing off quasi-racist rubbish as intellectual discourse.

>The one consistent thing about your posts is that you truly want to decimate people who see the situation differently from you. You take a lot of pride in humiliating others.<

Not quite, but you give me too much credit. I have no problems with disagreements based on facts. I'm only pointing out the obvious fallacies and contradictions in the arguments of those who engage and defend smear campaigns against the Muslim community. They ought to ashamed of trying the sanitize and obscure the role of the Zionist elites in shaping the discourse about us(when not lying to start a war which has killed millions).
If humiliation and decimation as you call is what it takes for them to realize that we aren't political footballs to be kicked around, then so bet it. No more free passes, no more plantation style romanticism.

>> "Islamists" and Hajis can play that game as well.

Those are technical definitions. They mean something. The distinction between and insult and a definition are huge.

>> A member of the Ummah actually, just like you.

But not a stooge?

>> Correct, but only with ugly and aggressive people who insist on passing off quasi-racist rubbish as intellectual discourse.

Find a basis for this in the Shariah. Please. Orthodox an practicing and all that. Is this legitimate in the Shariah?

>> I'm only pointing out the obvious fallacies and contradictions in the arguments of those who engage and defend smear campaigns against the Muslim community.

You never come across as a reasonable commentator. Just based on tone and manners.

>> If humiliation and decimation as you call is what it takes for them to realize that we aren't political footballs to be kicked around, then so bet it.

References to our Shariah would help me immensely. Of course, the fact is that you choose to humiliate others despite better advice.

>Those are technical definitions. They mean something. The distinction between and insult and a definition are huge.<

Don't be so anal retentive. You've lost the plot.

>But not a stooge?<

Nope, I don't shill for anybody. How about you, are you a stooge?

>Find a basis for this in the Shariah. Please. Orthodox an practicing and all that. Is this legitimate in the Shariah?<

Since when did you become such an advocate of Shariah given the amount whining you've done over "orthodoxy" so often? Why look for a basis in Shariah over my replying to neocon troll(I have no obligation to be nice and cuddly with those whose lies and terror have led to so much misery and chaos) yet no such demands are made when liberties are taken with Islam, including defamation of the Prophet(saw).

>You never come across as a reasonable commentator. Just based on tone and manners.<

That's YOUR interpretation, and pretty lame one at that. I find your views uninformed, gullible and incomplete, but do you see me whining about it? I deal with people on a case by case basis, nobody gets a free pass with me, Muslim or non-Muslim.

>Of course, the fact is that you choose to humiliate others despite better advice.<

Once again, you've given me too much credit. People like sg humiliate themselves with posting easily refuted nonsense. This has been going on for too long. Liars and hate mongers need to be exposed and yes, humiliated.

http://www.asianamericansforobama.com/national-muslim-voter-registration-day-2008-on-929-101

eid kareem mubaarak!

The above link announces places where voters may register in PA, NY, NJ, VA, OH.

Let us turn the negativity around by asking Allah for forgiveness, enjoying a wonderful Eid and making sure everyone we know who is eligible votes this November.

>> Since when did you become such an advocate of Shariah

You advocate Shariah, talk about LIVING ISLAM, so presumably you are practicing on it. So I'm asking you to explain, within the formula of your Islam, how you can do this. Not just an opinion about what others say, but genuine discussion about the Islamic roots of your own approach. Is it too much to ask you to explain your beliefs if you're so vehemently defending them? Maybe I can understand you better.

>> That's YOUR interpretation, and pretty lame one at that..

Ask anyone else.

>> Nope, I don't shill for anybody.

So saying someone is a Muslim stooge is not ok, but saying that someone is a Jewish stooge ..is OK?

>> Liars and hate mongers need to be exposed and yes, humiliated.

But you're hateful too, and you too do often make false assertions and false categorisations about others on the presumption of others ignorance.

>> I find your views uninformed, gullible and incomplete, but do you see me whining about it?

That's just your opinion. Tough actually, you never stop whining about others. For once, we'd just like to hear your view and not the weaknesses of others views.

>You advocate Shariah, talk about LIVING ISLAM, so presumably you are practicing on it. So I'm asking you to explain, within the formula of your Islam<

Evasive as ever, Ghulami. Where did I talk about living Islam in this thread? You brought up Sharia which you complain about so often. Why this sudden attempt to get "orthodox"? Don't be a hypocrite and intellectually dishonest in your failed attempts to be witty.

>So saying someone is a Muslim stooge is not ok, but saying that someone is a Jewish stooge ..is OK?<

And who was screaming "anti-Semitism" over and over again? "Islamist"? Obviously you were too busy being a stooge in your own right to see that. Try to have some idea what you're talking about before babbling senselessly online.

>But you're hateful too, and you too do often make false assertions and false categorisations about others on the presumption of others ignorance.<

Rubbish. I have never made false assertions or categorizations on anyone. I'm a straight shooter who backs up his views with facts. SG was exposed as an unapologetic zionist who couldn't handle the weight of his own propaganda(he didn't even read the links to the articles he provided which contradicted his points). I give no quarter to liars and slanderers. If you can't handle that, that's too bad for you.

>you never stop whining about others. For once, we'd just like to hear your view and not the weaknesses of others views.<

Actually, you're the biggest whiner on this site, with nothing more then poor attempts to psycho analyze every comment. You make claims you can't back up like your nonsense about "disparate American Muslims." Enough exercises in projection already.