Berlin May 23, 2006. We entered the mosque through a large iron gate closely watched by a score of Turkish men. Unlike most architecturally interesting buildings in Berlin, which are open and easily accessible, this mosque which is both majestic and grand, is surrounded by a high wall and is accessible only through iron gates. I was in Berlin for a conference organized by the American Institute for Contemporary German Studies, and one of their scholars and a Berlin Parliamentarian kindly volunteered to show me around Berlin.

As we approached the grand mosque, the Berlin Parliamentarian remarked, "Notice the Turkish flag on the mosque? Do you see a German flag anywhere?"

The daylong conference in Berlin was about comparing the experiences of Germany and the US in integrating their Muslim minorities. Throughout the day, scholars from both sides of the Atlantic struggled with political and philosophical issues involved in the absorption of large number of minorities whose political and cultural values may be at odds with those of the host nations.

While Muslim scholars argued for more openness, more religious and racial tolerance, and equal treatment of all religious communities, others called for more assimilation and insisted that immigrants must make the effort to learn local languages and adapt to the mainstream political and cultural norms.

As I looked at the mosque with its Turkish flag flying proudly, the high walls, the iron gates and the stoic faces, I suddenly realized that this was not a mosque - this was a sort of embassy, a foreign enclave, an extention of Turkish sovereignty in the heart of Germany. In the US, one may occasionally find a US flag in a mosque, but never a flag of a foreign country. The only mosque that has foreign flags is the Islamic Center in Washington DC, which was established by diplomats from Muslim countries.

I sympathized with the Berlin Parliamentarian�obvious displeasure with the Turkish flag. Turkish nationalism is particularly irritating. Several years ago I ran into a large contingent of Turks in the Holiest of Muslim Mosques in Mecca while circumambulating the Kaaba. They were wearing tiny Turkish flags on their shirt collars. I found this display of nationalism even in the House of God deeply offensive. Islam is a strictly monotheistic religion and nationalism in its extreme form begins to subvert the very idea of One God. Perhaps these Turks did not know that God is blind to nationality, ethnicity and race.

With Islamophobia on the rise in most western countries, grand displays of Islamic religiosity ᠴe mosque is indeed fabulous ȱ#mbined with overt, in your face displays of allegiance to foreign nations can only be described as spectacularly stupid.

Both Muslims and non-Muslims are actively demanding the elimination of barriers between western mainstream and Muslim Diasporas. While Muslims are insisting that host societies accommodate, recognize and respect all the differences that they bring, Non-Muslims ϱ5ually the dominant white Judeo-Christians ӱ!e demanding that Muslims moderate these differences. In Germany the focus is on learning the German language and the incorporation of Islam as a German institution. In the U.S. the challenges are more related to real or perceived sympathy of American Muslims for anti-Americanism in the Middle East.

Muslim immigrants bring three significant challenges to Western societies ұ#ltural differences, religious differences and political differences. In the U.S. the first two challenges are easily manageable. Most Americans believe in the United States as a multicultural society and deeply value religious pluralism. Unlike Europe where the elite talk a lot about secularism but the State actually incorporates religion, America does practice separation of church and State.

In the US, the government is neither involved nor interested in how Islam is institutionalized or managed by Muslims, where as in Germany the state not only teaches religion in school but also has religious clergy on government payroll. This becomes particularly problematic, since Germany finances both Christianity and Judaism but does not even recognize Islam.

In the US, most people respect and even value cultural differences, jealously guard religious freedom and consequently practice religious pluralism at all levels of society. Primarily because most AmericanխӠare from somewhere else, the fact that Muslims are also from elsewhere is not a big issue.

American identity is open, flexible and continuously evolving. American citizenship is also easily acquired and hence becoming American in law and spirit faces less cultural and political barriers. Additionally the "American dream" is a powerful positive that all immigrants aspire towards and often achieve. When traveling overseas, I frequently testify that coming to America for me was like joining the Marines ᠩ America one can "be all you can be".

At present the key barrier to the mainstreaming of Islam in America is the relations between the US and the Islamic World.

Germany has a long way to go. Even though it does not have foreign policy problems like the U.S., it has several domestic policy issues. First, Germany must recognize Islam. Germany has been for decades a multi-ethnic society but very few Germans imagine Germany as a multicultural society. German intellectuals brag a lot about being secular, well how about secularizing the German State and dumping Christianity and Judaism from the national budget.

German identity is rooted in the past and is culturally tied to race and ethnicity. Becoming German is very difficult even for those who are born in Germany. They may speak German better than most natives but happen to look like me rather than Boris Becker.

German intellectuals must begin to imagine a Germany as a political community that is a composite of values, rather than a nation-state based on a specific ethnicity. In the age of globalization, narrowly defined identities are untenable. Germany as an integral part of the emerging global society must define itself in terms of global values that are sensitive to cultural, racial and religious differences and become a role model for other European nations like Ireland and Portugal that will soon face similar problems.

Muslims who live as minorities in the west or anywhere else, must understood that their demand for tolerance for religious and cultural differences is a just cause. But they must align their political and economic interests with those of their neighbors (whose acceptance they seek) and not with those who live in foreign lands.

There is room for Islam in America and Germany. We can and we will build bigger and more spectacular mosques in the West, but there is no place for Saudi flags or Turkish or Pakistani flags in Western mosques. They have their embassies and that is enough. They should not be allowed to use our mosques.

ok ghulam you have your points but at the same time you have to remember we are muslims and that our deen comes first doesnt matter where we are

"fear Allah as much as you can"

im not hiding behind the deen and hurling insults to anyone like i always say im just pointing out the obvious.
again when it comes to kufr im not a takfeeri but some people really seem to not care whether they cross that line ,, if someone does cross it then it is up to them but i will not sit by and let him insult my beliefs or i should say our beliefs,,

of course human beings cannot learn from each other unless dawah is given in a manner that is proper

,, when i come across any omarg's though you try then must give to them only what they offer,, expect people to treat you the way you treat them ,, if someone keeps on rejecting the truth then what else can you do??

if you do not like the title ahlus sunnah waljamaa'a then the hadeeth says "the saved sect will be those who are upon what i (the prophet alaihi asalaam) and my companions are upon.."

if you are upon what the prophet alaihi asalaam and his companions were on then by the will of Allah that is what you are on,, so if you are indeed following what is in the Quran and the Sunnah then you can rightfully use that title but if you are trying to change, misinterpret, disregard and pick and choose as you please then that person should know where they are going unless Allah has mercy on them.

May Allah make us all from the saved sect

>> May Allah make us all from the saved sect

InsaAllah - Ameen

>> pick and choose as you please then that person should know where they are going unless Allah has mercy on them.

I disagree, I find for the most part peoples perspective is chosen by their background and experiences. I think that there shouldn't be a background or experience that should be DISREGARDED in favour of another. People affirm their own truths. How many experiences separate your views from OmarG's - hundreds of little experiences or a few major ones? Noones truth is absolute and people can only be expected to be loyal to their own understanding of truth.

We're all frustrated by the same lack of coherency we perceive in each others views. Our angry RESPONSES and backchatting mirror each others quite closely. I don't believe many people purposefully try to misinterpret, change or disregard what they know. I would think from this perspective that it is better to encourage someone to follow her/his own truth then to frustrate that person with mine.

Ghulam, I agree with your point about not wanting judges to set precedents and so on without considering Islamic ethics. I think my two examples of the imam and the chaplain only reinforce your point: the combination of both iman and social science knowledge is a very potent formula. However, it seems that only when Muslims are in a minority or perhaps as minorities in the West is when this approach is not strangled by the forces that be...

Hmmmmm, looks like we have green pastures in this thread.

>>I sympathized with the Berlin Parliamentarianís obvious displeasure with the Turkish flag<<

The eloquent words of a white washed South Asian. In other words, Khan sympathizes with German xenophobia (Nazism) against a minority muslim group (Turks) in that country. A form of tribalism and Jahiliyyah thinking on his part if I might add. The concept of banners and flags were created by the muslims long ago in Spain (Andalucia) and so forth. It does not detract from ones Islam to have a flag. The bottom line is that the Turks in Germany have to deal with the same if not worse harassment like the illegal immigrants in this country do. Except that in Germany their are many Neo-Nazi skinheads who resort to violence and quite often win the support of many Germans who have the same xenophobic mind set. I give credit to the Turks who built many mosques and help spread Islam in Europe, unlike the over rated author of this article who would be better off opening a curry joint for like minded morons.

Hmmmm, I don't see Khan or others include the Haditha massacre by our "beloved" marines aganist innocent men, women, and children who weren't displaying any flags. Hmmm, I am in the mood for chicken masala.

>Hmmmm, I don't see Khan or others include the Haditha massacre by our "beloved" marines aganist innocent men, women, and children who weren't displaying any flags.

DrN...please stop trying to relate every topic of Islam to Iraq like DrM. It is just silly.

>>It is just silly.<<

You have to inter-relate events to point out the inconsistencies that people tend to engage in, especially in this web-site. It seems to attract the wrong element to post. Thank god for Dr. M and others like him who like to get rid of the excess "garbage" found here. You can't talk about silly things such as flags of a muslim nation being displayed in a mosque and criticize the people who did that, when you have a nation under occupation (Iraq for those morons who don't get a hint) and whose citizens are being killed everyday by a foreign occupying invader who is waving their pansy flags to the world. Priorites must be set straight. The article written by Mr. Muqtader Masala is simply not relevant to what is going on in the world. It is by far the worst article I have read on this web-site.

>>DrN.<<

You honor me greatly, thanks.

>>they didnt have turkish flag on the building,only dark skin and head scarves<<

Well said SCTurk. Chok Guzel. Turkiye Cumhuriyeti.

I've been in Berlin for the last 6 weeks interviewing imams and visiting mosques for my dissertation on Turkish Islamic sermons. I've visited the mosque Mr. Khan wrote about several times, interviewed the imam, and spent hours chatting with people coming there from prayers. I wrote about my first visit on my website: http://jimgibbon.com/2006/06/20/visit-to-ditib-mosque . My observations differ a great deal from Mr. Khan's, and there is a particular factual detail that probably should have prevented him from writing the article the way he did.

First, in my most recent visits to Sehitlik Mosque there were two flags flying high above the grounds--one Turkish and one German. I'll ask when they were installed b/c it's possible that word got back to the mosque about this story and they made changes over the past few weeks.

Second, in the picture on Mr. Khan's website, there is an Azerbaijani flag and another flag next to the Turkish flag on the balcony in front of the mosque. Those flags are no longer there, so it makes me think there was some Turkic cultural day/celebration taking place. Just a hunch.

Third, I have never seen scores of men watching the gate, but in any case, keep in mind that the mosque is on the site of Berlin's oldest Islamic cemetary, which contains the remains of Ottoman ambassadors and even Turkish soldiers from WWI. Seeing as how the cemetary is alongside a wide, dusty road where cars come at speed, I can understand the need for a wall to keep the dirt and noise out (and maybe a gate to keep vandals out).

Fourth, and this is the kicker, I've been told repeatedly that Germany has actually granted the land of that cemetary and mosque to the Turkish government, who in turn has returned the favor in Istanbul at the cite of a cemetary containing remains of German/Prussian soldiers. Indeed, the mosque's website explains that the cemetary belongs to the Turkish Ministry of Defense. In other words, it's the same as when you visit a particular nation's embassy, so in a sense Mr. Khan was right to perceive an extension of Turkish sovereignty into the heart of Germany. (The mosque has a very friendly volunteer PR staff that could have explained this to him.)

In short, disregarding his thesis for the moment, Mr. Khan might want to find a different example to support his argument.

Nice. Its always good to have first hand witnesses who can comment well on the issue at hand; I am guilty of being among the chattering class, too ;-) Thanks for the link and the insightful comment.