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WEEKLY NEWSLETTER
altmuslim this week - november 10, 2008 - This week, with the decisive victory of President-elect Barack Hussein Obama, we take a look at what Obama's ascendancy says about Muslims in America and around the world. Also, what do Rashid Khalidi and Rahm Emanuel have in common?
ASIDES
editor's blog
On Rahm and Rashid - Barack Obama's selection of Rahm Emanuel is a worrying start to pro-Palestinian hopes in his administration. But when compared to his friendship with Rashid Khalidi, is Obama being reactionary with the Emanuel pick - or strategically open minded? (November 10, 2008)

Crescents among the crosses - The fact that up to 10% of voters still believe that Barack Obama is a Muslim (despite the Rev. Wright debacle and over a year of clarifications in the media) or "an Arab" underscores just how embedded the idea is that Muslims are still alien to all that America stands for. (October 20, 2008)

CONTRIBUTORS
PODCASTS
altmuslim review 030 - Free speech - is it something Muslims can live with? In this episode, we talk about how Muslims cope with (and benefit from) free speech in Western societies. Also, an extended interview with Jewel of Medina author Sherry Jones discussing her controversial book. (October 10, 2008)

altmuslim review 029 - A vibrant Muslim media could have an opportunity to restore balance to the Muslim public image - if it can get on its feet. In this episode, we explore the state of the Muslim media. Also, an interview with the creator of "Muslim Cafe", Navid Akhtar. (July 5, 2008)

ELSEWHERE
Zahed will be a keynote speaker at the inaugural meeting of the Network of European Muslim Technology Entrepreneurs, in Madrid, Spain (November 14, 2008)

Shahed will be a featured panelist at Red Faith/Blue Faith: Religion in the 2008 Election and Beyond at the Center for American Progress in Washington, DC (November 7, 2008)

Let the Global Islamic Conspiracy Begin, Ali Eteraz, Jewcy, (November 5, 2008)

Zahed will be a guest on Press TV's Islam & Life, hosted by Tariq Ramadan, speaking on French and American Muslim experiences (November 3, 2008)

Zahed will be a guest on Irish broadcaster RTE's Spectrum radio show, speaking about Barack Obama and the Muslim factor in the US presidential election (November 1, 2008)

Shahed will be a guest on the nationally syndicated radio show Interfaith Voices, speaking about the "otherization" of American Muslims (October 23, 2008)

Powell's remarks rebut the idea of Muslims as political kryptonite - Wajahat Ali, The Guardian (UK), Comment is Free (October 22, 2008)

Today's Boo Radley: Muslim Americans - Wajahat Ali, The Washington Post (October 20, 2008)

The Republican red scare, Wajahat Ali, The Guardian (UK), Comment is Free (October 11, 2008)

Heritage was mixed a long time ago - Irfan Yusuf, Sydney Morning Herald (September 30, 2008)

Shahed will be a guest on BBC Radio 4's "Sunday" programme speaking about the Jewel of Medina controversy (September 28, 2008)

Dangerous liaisons, Wajahat Ali, The Guardian (UK), Comment is Free (September 27, 2008)

Another attack - in the name of whose Islam? - Irfan Yusuf, The Age (Australia) (September 22, 2008)

Violence against women won't stop until men speak out - Irfan Yusuf, New Zealand Herald (September 12, 2008)

Shahed will be participating in a panel discussion, Sourcing Islam, at the Religion Newswriters Association conference in Washington, DC (September 20, 2008)

Muslims have nothing to fear from this book - Shahed Amanullah, The Guardian (UK), Comment is Free (September 9, 2008)

Rushdie is no believer in free speech - Irfan Yusuf, The Age (Australia) (August 8, 2008)

Shahed will be participating in the Progressive Revival group blog at BeliefNet (July 29, 2008)

Western civilization? What a good idea that would be - Irfan Yusuf, New Zealand Herald (July 22, 2008)

Shahed will be speaking about the role of the Web in promoting Muslim civic engagement at the ISNA South Central Zone Conference in Houston, Texas (July 5, 2008)

IN THE NEWS
Domestic crusader - An associate editor of the publication AltMuslim.com—“it’s neither too apologetic nor too antagonistic”—Wajahat exhorts wealthier American Muslims to invest in their own future by creating think tanks and scholarships in art and media instead of collecting luxury cars. “We have to break out of our culturally isolated bubble,” he says. (October 11, 2008)

National publisher kills Spokane journalist’s book - [Amanullah] sent e-mails to about 200 graduate students in Islamic studies, telling them of Spellberg's "frantic" call and asking if they had heard about the novel. "What I got back was a collective shrug of the shoulders," says Amanullah. "The thing that is surreal for me is that here you had a non-Muslim write a book, and you had a non-Muslim complain about it, and a non-Muslim publisher pull the book." (August 20, 2008)

Self censoring Muslims - "But Amanullah says he never wanted the book pulled. 'I'm upset the book wasn't published,' he said, 'not because I agree or disagree with the book.' For him, 'I don't want to be in the position where we are stifling speech. Preemptive censorship is not in our interest. That's worse than even censorship. We're not going to silence our way out of problems.'" (August 12, 2008)

You still can’t write about Muhammad - "But Ms. Spellberg wasn't a fan of Ms. Jones's book. On April 30, Shahed Amanullah, a guest lecturer in Ms. Spellberg's classes and the editor of a popular Muslim Web site, got a frantic call from her. "She was upset," Mr. Amanullah recalls. He says Ms. Spellberg told him the novel "made fun of Muslims and their history," and asked him to warn Muslims." (August 5, 2008)

Why the silence? - "Both reactionary religion and militant secularism are on the rise, with both displaying a rigid certainty and a desire for power that will do nothing to benefit society. In this context, it is vital that people with open-minded faith speak up and demonstrate alternatives. [altmuslim.com has] set many good examples in this regard." (January 8, 2008)

CONTENT PARTNERS
Islamica Magazine

Common Ground News Service

Beliefnet

Q-News

Illume Media

The American Muslim


Muslims in film
The ten movies Steven Spielberg has yet to make
Imagine if we were in a parallel universe in which Hollywood gave Arabs, Muslims, and Jews a fair shake. Here are ten films (all based on true stories) that are just waiting for Spielberg's magic.

Hollywood mogul Steven Spielberg's latest film "Munich" focuses on Israel's efforts to avenge the tragic killings of its athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympic Games. Although the Israeli-Palestinian conflict is ripe with great ideas for potential blockbuster films, Hollywood flicks about the conflict have tended to remain formulaic and dehumanizing.

Spielberg hopes "Munich" will be different, and claims he didn't want to make "a Charles Bronson movie - good guys vs. bad guys and Jews killing Arabs without any context." Critics say Spielberg is too pro-Israel to make a fair film about the conflict.

Imagine for a second it is Opposite Day. Imagine we're in some kind of Twilight Zone parallel universe in which Hollywood gives Arabs, Muslims, and Jews a fair shake and peace a fair chance. What kind of movies about the Middle East would we then be chomping Goobers, Junior Mints, and popcorn to at the local twenty screen multiplex?

Maybe these movies might actually be made by some of the 125 Palestinian kids Spielberg is giving video cameras to document their lives. Perhaps a talented few will go on to become big-time Hollywood directors. Here are ten potential films - all inspired by actual events - that are just waiting for the magic of Spielberg & his wannabes:

1. King David Hotel: The bombing of the King David Hotel, which served as headquarters of the British administration in Palestine, killed 91 Arabs, Jews, and Brits in 1946. Two future Prime Ministers of Israel, David Ben Gurion and Menachem Begin, masterminded the attack. Disguised as Arabs, members of Begin's Irgun placed 350kg of explosives inside the building. In this action-packed thriller, David (Pierce Brosnan) a British officer ordered to hunt down the killers falls for Margaret (Uma Thurman), an American journalist working for Life Magazine. But is Margaret really in love or is she a secret Zionist assassin out to stop David in his tracks?

2. Nakba: A story of innocent love in a time of war and tragedy. Layla (Penelope Cruz) & Salam (Orlando Bloom) are a Romeo & Juliet against the backdrop of the 1948 Nakba, the Palestinian national catastrophe. During the Nakba, over 700,000 Palestinians fled voluntarily & involuntarily their homes. Can their love survive conflict?

3. USS Liberty: When Israeli boats and fighter jets attack the US Navy intelligence ship USS Liberty in the middle of the 1967 Six Day War, 34 US servicemen are killed and 173 are wounded. The official word from Washington and Tel Aviv is that the attack was a mistake. But Brad Pitt & Tom Cruise, who play surviving officers from the Liberty, swear vengeance after discovering that the attack was actually part of a plot to start World War III.

4. Sabra & Shatila: It's 1982 and the war in Lebanon rages on. British war correspondent Robert Fisk (Star Wars star Ewan MacGregor) hides in the camps of Sabra & Shatilla, while a Lebanese militia aided and abetted by Israel slaughters thousands of Palestinian refugees. Sahar (Sandra Bullock) is a Palestinian mother determined to protect her family at any cost.

5. Vanunu: A political thriller set in Israel, Australia, Thailand, England, and Italy. "Syriana" star George Clooney plays Mordechai Vanunu, the nuclear technician who exposes Israel's nuclear weapons program and pays the ultimate price. Nicole Kidman plays Cheryl Bentov, the American Mossad agent who seduces and kidnaps him.

6. Hebron: A story of tragedy and torn loyalties. In 1994, Brooklyn Jewish doctor Baruch Goldstein opened fire on Muslim worshippers in Hebron, killing 29. Palestinian American Mazen Khalili (Tom Hanks), a State Department official assigned to investigate the massacre, struggles with his job responsibilities and his roots. Leah Rabinowitz (Meg Ryan) is a Jewish American journalist who discovers a dark family secret that will change her life forever.

7. Qana: On April 18, 1996, Israeli shelling of a UN Compound that shelters Lebanese refugees kills more than 100 & injures over 300 men, women, and children. Jessica (Angelina Jolie) is a UN worker determined to let the world know what happened after witnessing the atrocity. Yossi (Robert De Niro) is a Mossad agent assigned to kill Jolie.

8. Gaza: Chris Hedges (Harrison Ford), a New York Times correspondent in Jerusalem, files stories from his hotel room. Hedges reaches a turning point when he witnesses Israeli soldiers killing young Palestinian boys for sport, then defies his editors by writing stories that humanize Palestinians. David Schwimmer & Sarah Jessica Parker make cameo appearances as the parents of Muhammad al-Durra, the 12 year old Palestinian boy killed by Israeli troops in 2000.

9. Rachel: Rachel Corrie (Gwyneth Paltrow) is the idealistic young American activist crushed to death by the Israeli army with a Caterpillar bulldozer. Sally Field, well-known for her role in "Not Without My Daughter", plays Rachel's mother.

10. Refuseniks: When a fellow soldier commits suicide after killing an unarmed pregnant Palestinian woman (played by Natalie Portman) in cold blood, two young Israeli soldiers (Matt Damon and Ben Affleck) decide that the occupation and the killing of Palestinians is immoral and unjust.

Mas’ood Cajee lives in San Joaquin County, California.


Islamic Relief: A 4-Star Charity

67 COMMENTS ON THIS ARTICLE



islamicphkr wrote:

>the Islamic Arab chops off heads and lops off hands and ears and eyes."

The Jewish Israeli shoots Palestinian schoolgirls, murdered his own kids at Masada, "killed Jesus", led others to gas chambers. Any group looks evil out of context, ignoring its good deeds. Germany's "Eternal Jew," Russia's "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" dehumanized Jews, making brutality easy. Who thought Jews, having endured pogroms and the Holocaust, would become oppressors, too.?

>They murder their own daughters over "honor"...

Heavily armed IDF soldiers in nuclear-bomb protected state kill stone-throwing boys because they feel "threatened." Israeli settlers murder muslims at pray because "yaweh" tells them to.

>their religion is one of violence and dehumanization.

Exactly what Nazis said about Jews. Now "Judenazis" say the same about Arabs and Muslims. So it goes, the circle of demonization.

> the Israelis have turned into those they have had to kill in order to stay alive.

Jews stole land, killed owners, raped wives, terrorized those staying behind in continued occupation because... Arabs had the audacity act like Jews in the Warsaw ghetto and rise up?

>Who isn't nauseated by the virulent anti-semetic rants and raves on Palestinian TV and radio?

How accurately does Israeli TV portray Palestinians? Do Jewish kids know their state was created by terrorists who became prime ministers? Do they know the IDF was formerly the Haganah, a terrorist group? And aren't Arabs semites, too?

>Jews are responsible for the tsunami; jews are descended from monkies...

Arabs are "evil animals" who want to push poor, meek Israel "into the sea." And the moon is made of green cheese. Do Jews demonized others? Are Israeli Arabs are treated equally? Are Gentiles are deemed heathens? Do Jewish men thank god for not being women?

>hate filled diatribe used down throughout the ages against jewish people...

Now with their own state, Jews spew hate-filled diatribes against Arab people.

> it has become part and parcel of Islamic culture to demean and defile and disrepect Christianity and Judiasm.

What of Arabic hospitality, love of learning, closeness of families, sense of honor, respect for other cultures? How much empire-building, war-making and enslavement has been done by Christians and Jews?


Why the hell are jacka**es like Trevor even allowed to post here? I mean, if there was a rabid Zionist who was willing to express himself or herself in an intelligent, cogent manner, then that's fine. Even if the views are garbage, at least some civilized debate could occur, even if the views are diametrically opposed to each other. But the kind of bulls**t he spews is so passe. I can read that crap on tons of other blogs and watch it on Fox. Trevor obviously betrays his utter lack of intelligence and racism by spewing the bigotry he wants to get attention for. Let him do it at sites of neo-con fanatics. He should be kept out of here though. Most established websites have rules about not making racist or other comments. Why the Hell does his sh*t have to be posted here? Just to "prove" how open we are?


Chaiwoman eructed thus:

"if there was a rabid Zionist who was willing to express himself or herself in an intelligent, cogent manner, then that's fine."

WHAT, pray tell, does that have to do with my posts? What words did she not understand?

Ah, the wondrous paranoid world of the irony-impaired. Ms. Chai sputters about "utter lack of intelligence...and racism... neo-con fanatics....[What, no lions, tigers and bears?]," then urges that I be "kept out of here." How non-jugmental, open-minded, non-insulting, and tolerant. Bet she's a feminist. No wonder there is no peace in the world. Even so, I urge her to re-read my posts and try not to move her lips.

(I know. See how easy it is to descend?)

Now, for earthlings my posts were transparent. I was showing how the same demonizations once used against Jews are now used against Arabs...often by supporters/citizens of the Jewish state. How ignorance about the founding of Israel allows "terrorism" to be condemned by those who practiced it before and after 1948. How any group can be called "evil" by selectively viewing its history.

Pretty simple.


Oh my, Trevor, you say that word "feminist" like it's up there with facist or racist. The definition of feminist is "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes"

And WHAT "pray tell" is wrong with equality, or do you believe it's something only to be enjoyed among men?

Wow, are we going further back in time or what?


truthorconsequences wrote:

>you say that word "feminist" like it's up there with fascist or racist.

It IS.

>The definition of feminist is "the theory of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes"

Right. The definition of Communism sounded nice, too. It was the practice that killed.

>WHAT "pray tell" is wrong with equality...

Nothing. In what century do you think feminists will embrace it?

>are we going further back in time or what?

We never left. Western feminists live ardently in a combination Victorian-1950s era.

I don't want to get off subject, but Islamic and Eastern cultures would do well to look at where so-called "modern feminist" cultures are headed. They aren't replenishing themselves. Men aren't marrying, for good reasons. Cynicism abounds.

Feminists never wanted equality. They wanted the best of men's world without recognizing or paying the price. They want to stay pampered. In the military, for example, they meet lesser standards and never face combat like men. Sure, SOME military women die in war, but rarely and incidentally. Civilians and cows and K-9 corps dogs die in war, too. We don't call THEM soldiers.

Feminists also want equal pay, but not equal work. Look at all the high-paying dirty, dangerous, necessary jobs in society...from coal-mining to construction to cleaning high-rise windows: Why do no women do them?

Feminists refuse to share traditional in-home powers, too. Divorce was to be fault-free, yet men usually get bills while women keep the house and kids.

There has been little backlash to feminism's many insults, Instead, men waited and now serially-date Steinem-era feminists' daughters. Harridans like NYT calumnist Maureen Dowd stare at empty dance cards. Who cares?



I'm sorry Trevor:

You are right. My anger was actually directed at the who you quoted (islamicphkr).

My apologies. However, I do take issue with your animosity towards feminism. Feminism is a reaction to the extreme misogyny that continues to characterize most societies, even Western ones.


Feminism is sold as for female pride, strength and equalilty, but will result in loss of female pride. turning our women into whores who dress like prostitues is what happens. if you have eyes and live in america you see this is obvious
I do not agree with keeping women down as it is alleged happens in arab or muslim areas, but i do like their dress code!
As far as jewish evils perpetrated against muslims one only needs to tune into the holoc- i mean, history channel, where you can watch shows which expose the mossad basically bragging about assasinations and bombings throughout the 70s and 80s
do not allow the forces of evil to cause hatred among Christians and Muslims!!


Chaiwoman:

>I'm sorry Trevor: You are right. My anger was actually directed at the [poster] who you quoted (islamicphkr).

Apology accepted. Honorable that you offered it, too.

> Feminism is a reaction to the extreme misogyny that continues to characterize most societies

Well, here I take issue. I urge others in and out of Muslim lands to pay heed.

Feminists seek benefits without concomitant burdens. For example, they want female suffrage without making women defend, with their lives, the countries in which they vote. They want women to head corporations without sacrificing 25 years to attain that. They also never look at male burdens or societal needs. ItÌs all about women and what they, like children, Ïdemand.Ó Feminists said the Taliban was bad for denying education to women and making them wear burqas. They ignored men who were forced to join armies, attend dogmatic religious schools, or wear beards. To feminists men are money-mules, animals that build/maintain things for human. When Muslim men and boys were killed in soccer stadiums feminists did not protest the sexism. Who cared? They think man have no feelings and are innately evil.

Feminism is a spoiled, self-centered, misandric enterprise. It is, literally, irresponsible. It says since women are responsible for nothing they should run everything. But women and men have ALWAYS been jointly responsible for the way the world is. The hand that rocks the cradle also rules the world. If HE rules the roost, SHE rules the rooster. Women hold up half the sky AND fill half of hell. The mother who raises her sons to avenge vendettas is as culpable as the general who orders them into battle. Not all power is overt or outside the house or male.

Feminists selfishly deny this. They insist men made no historic sacrifices and have no hearts. So what if men die creating countries? Women must drive cars! A divorced woman gets the education she ÏmissedÓ by raising children. What does the father get who missed being with his kids, working years at a job he hated?

There are no more spoiled women on earth than feminists. They are coming to a culture near you. Be afraid. Be VERY afraid. There will be no peace until men stand up and demand feminists grow up.


Pt 1.

It might be the case that Jews such as Steven Spielberg have a lot of power in the movie industry. I too hope that one day Arabs will get a "fair shake" from Hollywood. Although I think it's great that you pointed out lesser known incidents that happened to Muslims, I have a couple of problems with your article.

For starters, the Munich event involved terrorism. Israeli (Jewish) civilians were targeted and killed simply because of their religion and their affiliation with Israel. They werent targeting the military or gov. As I look down your list I can acknowledge the fact that some of these events are extremely disturbing. I noticed the reference to Mohammad Al Dura, whose murder by Israeli gunmen was questioned. Later investigations into the incident actually pointed blame towards Palestinian gunfire as opposed to Israeli gunfire (http://www.seconddraft.org/movies.php). I then notice the death of Rachel Corrie who interfered with Israeli operations and placed herself in front of a moving tank. The Qana incident mentions nothing about the Israeli battle with Hezbollah, and Hezbollahs frequent intermixing with civilians while doing battle. How can you honestly draw a moral equivalence between the killing of 11 innocent civilians, targeted solely because of their religion and say the death of Rachel Corrie or Dura? Although I detest Begin's history, the history of the Irgun shows attacks on military targets. Was it horrible that so many people died in the hotel bombing, including Jews? Of course! Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Aqsa target the innocent. The Black September terrorists targeted the innocent.

One common statement i hear from the Muslim world is how powerful Jews are in media. Is that a bad thing? Is it a bad thing for people to work hard their whole life and become succesful? Although the Muslims and Arabs might be losing the media battle in the United States, they certainly aren't losing it in the middle east, where not a day goes by that anti-semitic cartoons or documentaries are aired throughout the Muslim world (http://www.memritv.org).


promotepeace: Your statement "One common statement i hear from the Muslim world is how powerful Jews are in media. Is that a bad thing?" Iíd like to answer that but first, I want to tell you that I am not a Muslim; Iím atheist, born in the US of European descent.

People who have either been victims of Jews or who have read up on the tragedy inflicted on the Palestinians for 58 to 150 years know that the one card used to justify Israel's crimes of humanity is the Holocaust and its enormous number of 6 million Jewish victims.

1. In 1985, The Auschwitz-Berkenau museum issued a press release stating the number of dead from that camp was reduced from 4 million to 1.5 million. As all Americans know, the number 6 million is still the standard number of dead cited despite it hasnít been factual for 21 years. It was also released that the 1.5 million victims consisted of not only Jews but non-Jews. This past December, another press release stated the number of deaths that occurred at Auschwitz-Majdanek was revised from roughly 360,000 to 78,000. http://www.auschwitz-muzeum.oswiecim.pl/new/index.php?tryb=news_big&language=EN&id=879, http://www.rense.com/general62/aauc.htm

2. A Palestinian is murdered almost every single day. American tax payers give Israel well over $3.5 bn per year, free tanks, apache helicopters, and arms galore, plus another $2.6 billion aid (bribe) per year to Egypt to tolerate Israel, totalling $6 billion plus per year to kill Palestinians every single day, most are innocent civilians, many are children. As such, Israel is guilty of crimes of humanity; US Fed law prohibits aid to such countries. http://www.unhchr.ch/Huridocda/Huridoca.nsf/TestFrame/0eabc4d2d0ce097bc1256985004fd471?Opendocument

3. Former CIA Agent Ray McGovern as well as numerous others have stated we are in Iraq for O I L: Oil, Israel, Logistics. We may attack Iran next; we have threatened Syria too, mostly for Israel. Why are our soldiers fighting another regimeís war ñ a racist one? Not racist you say? You can find information about that here: http://www.muhajabah.com/apartheid.htm

ALL of this is important to report, ALL of it is related, and NONE of it made the press in the US. The reason it hasn't made the press is because a certain group now controls the media, Hollywood and our Middle East Foreign Policy with no interest whatsoever in the "interests" of the US, but of Israel first. This is disloyalty, this is treason.


continued from above - we are extremely limited to how much we can write in one posting, but for further information on the media issue, see "Off the Charts - Accuracy in Reporting of Israel/Palestine in the The New York Times" report here: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/nyt-report.html

As far as all your other comments, you have the Internet at your fingertips, everything you stated, or your ignorance of facts, stems from this media and Hollywood bias. I invite you to investigate everything you question and in time, you will begin to understand what is really going on.

I do caution you though, if you have long periods of days where you feel good, optimistic even, or you sleep relatively well and do not feel your life or livelihood is in danger, you can kiss all that goodbye once you embark on this journey. But at least you'll know the truth. I'm still waiting to "feel free" based on that expression "the truth will set you free." Whoever wrote it obviously never encountered Zionism.


Trevor - though I am a woman, and not a Muslim either, I do love your post on feminism, esp. your opening sentence. I'll go farther and say that it was a mistake giving women the vote in democratic countries. Women in general just don't get it when it comes to politics. - Horsea.


Obviously "truthorconsequences" doesn't read his history books. Although the Aushwitz Museum might have released a statement reducing the number of dead, that certainly doesn't reduce the number of Jews that died in the Holocaust. I studied the Holocaust for over 15 years and have found that a lot of the original numbers of Jews that had been reported as killed were actually underestimated. It is very likely that more than 6 million Jews died in the holocaust. Remember, there were other death camps. I don't understand your motive in questioning the number of Jews that were killed in the Holocaust. You can certainly help your case for the Muslim world by pushing for more movies about the Armenian Genocide or the plight of the Palestinians without seeking to minimalize the number of innocent Jews and non Jews that were systematically slaughtered in the camps. Quite scary that a lot of people in the Muslim world (Iran for example) seek to minimalize these numbers while also comparing the US and Israel to the Nazi regime. Sad, and very telling. Instead of demonizing Israel and Jewish History, support the Arab world.

As far as your post about the Palestinian death toll...when you say a Palestinian is murdered every day, are you referring to a non combatant civilian, or a combatant. There is an important distinction. On top of that, Palestinian Arabs in the occupied terrorities enjoy MORE human rights than Arabs in any other Arab country. I don't think that the conditions that the Palestinians are living in are acceptable by any means, but in comparison to other Arab countries, they certainly aren't the worse off.

Finally, when you are talking about the large amount of funds provided to the Israeli gov't to aid the Palestinians, completely ignore the fact that their former elected leader, Arafat, mastered the art of misusing funds. Millions and millions of dollars that could have you been used on education, and health care for his people were used for terrorism and for his million dollar house in Paris.


Correction - Not Armeninan genocide (not Muslim based), but Hebron Massacre.


These last years some historians and or revisionists have changed the estimated number of Jews killed during the Holocaust from 6 million to 2.5 million. This new estimation is based on the fact that Soviet historians may have inflated the number of Soviet victims for political reasons. Some revisionists or deniers are using this new estimated number of victims in order to minimize the Holocaust or even to deny its reality. Even with different estimates and keep in mnd, they are estimates, the Holocaust took the lives of millions of innocent people. Even if this new estimation is accurate, which it may not be, the question still must be asked; is the extermination of 2.5 million innocent victims more justifiable than the extermination of 6 million people? And even if there were "only"100,000 or 10,000 or 1,000 victims, this number does not justify the horror of the Nazi's extermination policy. The deniers are just trying to make banal the murder of millions of innocent people by German government policy.


First of all, I am not a "his." But you clearly did not read anything else I posted because the rense article clearly tells you that the 4 million number at Auschwitz-Birkenau was 4 out of the 6 million Jews historians claim died there. The new count puts it at just under a million Jews. I don't know what history books you're reading but numbers and scientific evidence does not lie, but Jewish historians do. And yes, there should be more movies about the Armenian Genocide as well as the Native American Genocide and the genocide of over 100 million Africans who perished due to the trans-atlantic slave trade operated by Jews (plenty of documentation on this all by Jews) but since those atrocities would overshadow the Holocaust Industry, most are "disputed" as actual genocides.

As far as the Palestinians, most are innocent civilians but then again, since when has Palestine been allowed to have a legitimate army to defend itself against the 4th most powerful army in the world, well funded by the US? These people had their land and lives stolen from them and they're not allowed to resist and defend themselves? I don't know where you're coming from but that's just not logical. Human beings have a right to defend themselves, but I suppose so many Americans have been brainwashed to believe Arabs aren't human, they just can't see beyond that, thanks to Hollywood and the media, which brings us back to your original question and my answer as to why it's not such a good idea for one group to control a major industry that has an agenda to continue to steal land from these people.


You've done all the work for me. Your focus on "jews" in general is quite telling.
I wonder, do you question the number of Palestinians killed by Jordanian forces in Black September?

Most killed are innocent civilians? You mean like the Jenin Massacre?

When has Palestine been allowed to have a legitimate army to defend itself? As soon as its leaders decide to spend their money on building a viable state instead of spending the money on terrorism and compensating the families of suicide bombers who send their children as human bombs into crowded cafes in Tel Aviv. But you should just ignore that and simply focus on demonizing the horrible democracy known as Israel, that allows religious freedom for every religious group (over 1 million muslims living in Israel), while also ignoring the fact that the Palestinian charter still calls for the destruction of the state of Israel. So, if you had it your way, the Palestinians would have apache helecopters and nukes, and they would use them to destroy the state of Israel.

As far as being outnumbered, the Israeli army was attacked by several Arab armies in 1948, without the help of Apachi helecopters or weapons from the US. Why not mention that?

The notion that the land was stolen from the Palestinians is hard to maintain. I could go into the history of the land that was originally stolen from the Jews from the Romans but i'd rather you read up on it. Oddly enough, in the entire history of the region there is no point at which Palestinian Arabs actually held the entire area. So the idea that it was 'stolen from them' is hard to maintain. Do you realize that Jordan still OCCUPIES 80% of the land that made up the original Palestinian mandate? So if you really cared about the Palestinians, you would obviously be focusing your energy on protesting the crime being perpetrated by the Jordanians against the Palestinians. But the key here is that, well, deep down, you donít really care about the Palestinians.

As for your last paragraph, its just not accurate. To say that one group controls the media and has an agenda to continue to steal land from these people is a lie. Don't mention the recent pullout in the West Bank and don't mention the fact that Israel has come to the table with peace offers on several occassions. Read your history books before you post. Please. You are exacerbating the situation for the very people that you claim to support.




As an additoinal note, politically, Jews may wield disproportionate power in the United States and use it to advocate policies that strengthen the U.S.-Israel relationship; however, there is no evidence this has translated into favorable press coverage for Israel. It is possible to argue that pro-Arab forces, such as the petrochemical industry, have as much or more influence on the media and encourage an anti-Israel bias. Do you have a problem with Muslims controling the media in the middle east whose agenda is to call for the destruction of Israel and the killing of Jews (not just Israealies) worldwide? [url=http://www.memritv.org?]http://www.memritv.org?[/url]


promotepeace wrote: "the Munich event involved terrorism." Jews forming their state did the same. The Stern Gang. Squads that terrorized Arabs off their lands. Allies bombing Dresden and Hiroshima targeted civilians, too. The Munich action was hostage-taking. It turned deadly when Germans fired shots.

>They werent targeting the military or gov.

How "innocent" are civilians in democracies who create/endorse national actions and policies?

"Later investigations into the incident actually pointed blame towards Palestinian gunfire..."

Investigations by whom? Israel attacked the SS Liberty for hours claiming it was a tramp steamer despite American flags and U.S. sailors. Has Israel EVER admitted wrong-doing?

"Rachel CorrieÖinterfered with Israeli operations and placed herself in front of a moving tank."

It was a bulldozer. It was also breaking international law by destroying houses of occupied people. She wore bright clothes and was seen by the operator who thought her life less important than his job as Gestapo agent for the Israeli Reich.

"How can you honestly draw a moral equivalence between the killing of 11 innocent civilians, targeted solely because of their religion and say the death of Rachel Corrie or Dura?"

Every life is precious, no? Yet 6 million Jews are always mentioned, not the 6 million others killed during the Holocaust. And what of 7-10 million Ukrainians starved by Stalin?

"the Irgun shows attacks on military targets. Was it horrible that so many people died in the hotel bombingÖ?"

So hotels are now military targets?

"Hamas, Hezbollah, Al Aqsa target the innocent."

How many atomic bombs, jets, unmanned drones, apache helicopters, etc. did the British use against "occupied Jews" in the 1940s? Think Irgun wouldn't have targeted civilians, like Stern Gang did, if they had better weapons and could get away with it?

"how powerful Jews are in media. Is that a bad thing?"

No more than Germans being powerful in the 1930s.

"Is it a bad thing for people to work hard their whole life and become successful?"

Does that hold for Palestinians, too? Oh, Jews rule over them. Maybe they ìdeserveî their poverty, like Jews kept down by German law and behaviors, too.

"not a day goes by that anti-semitic cartoons or documentaries are aired throughout the Muslim world"

While Israelis only and always say flattering thing about their Semitic brothers?


I never said that Israel was free of blame for the terrorist acts that they committed. I completely oppose Begin's terrorism as well as the Stern Gang's terrorist acts. It seems as though you might be missing my point.

I didn't justify the King David Hotel incident. The death of any innocent people is horrible, but it would be foolish for anyone that knows the history of the event not to acknowledge the fact that the hotel was the site of the British military command and the British Central Investigation Division. It would also be foolish not to acknowledge the fact that three telephone calls were placed, one to the hotel, one to the French Consulate, and a third to the Palestine Post, warning them of the bombing. How often do Muslim terrorist organizations warn their victims before they blow them up at a cafe or mall? The fact that it was a hotel makes little difference. Are you telling me that if Osama and his cohorts were hiding in a hotel, and refused to leave, we should avoid bombing it just because its a hotel?

And yes, every life is precious. Corrie's life was precious and so was Dura's. I simply think it was morally unwise to draw an equivalency between the death of a woman that placed herself in harms way deliberately and the "terrorism" that occurred at Munich. As far as Dura is concerned, investigations show that the gunfire wasn't necessariliy from an IDF gun. Would it surprise you if Palestinian gunmen planned the death of this boy, with French film crews taping the whole thing, when Palestinian youth are encouraged to become suicide bombers daily? Lets not believe the canard that all muslims are terrorists, but lets also not fool ourselves to believe the canard that only a handful of Palestinians support terrorism. Israel is not living next to peaceful Tibetans.

While Israelis might not say flattering things about their Semitic brothers, I challenge you to find me 1 mainstream cartoon published by an Israeli newspaper denigrating the Muslim population. Like I said before, there isn't a day that goes by that an anti semitic cartoon isnt published in the arab world. Keep in mind the fact that Arabs and Muslims living in Israel enjoy the same rights as the Jews living in Israel. I wish that were the case for the Jews living in Muslim countries.



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