This week will be remembered as a dark one in European Muslim history. At a time when Bosnian Muslims were commemorating the 10th anniversary of the Srebrenica massacre of 8000 Muslim men and boys � the worst such event in Europe since the Holocaust � two disturbing news items involving young European Muslims threatened to shake the foundations of European-Muslim relations. If not responded to in force by Europe's 20-million strong Muslim community, Srebrenica may not be a unique occurrence.

First, the news that the London terrorist attacks were carried out by youths of Pakistani descent born in Yorkshire will have profound ramifications for Muslim life in Britain. Even in the days following the London bombings, the general sense among the British was that the danger was from without, and that all Britons, including Muslims, stood shoulder to shoulder against an external threat. The discovery of the homegrown origin of the worst carnage in London since WWII shakes this relationship to the core. A level of trust that existed even through last week's terrorism is now left in tatters. The universal condemnation of the acts by British Muslim organizations matters little to non-Muslims who see four youth born of Britain and given an opportunity to contribute to British society, yet choosing to wreak havoc on it through a suicide bombing attack likely planned within their community and despite a well documented rise in religious extremism among young Muslims in Britain.

Second, we heard the chilling words of the murderer of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who unrepentantly declared in court his resolve to "chop off the head of everyone who insults Allah or the prophet" if given another chance. He confirms the worst fears of secular Europe � that there are some out there that are willing to kill rather than talk in response to criticism of Islam or Muslims. As in the case with the London bombers, here was a Muslim who grew up steeped in European culture, language, and law, and yet chose to impose his own values and judgments on his non-Muslim neighbors through violence.

In both the British and Dutch cases, we have a European Muslim's worst nightmare � young Muslims who have been born and raised in Europe, yet who reject a peaceful coexistence with their neighbors. They see themselves as outsiders who, for whatever reason, see violence as a means for correcting the actions of their government or of fellow citizens. These people effectively say through their actions, "Submit to my will, or die." Unfortunately, it does not matter if these five individuals represent an extreme minority within the larger European Muslim community. The fact that they exist at all, and spoke with a collective defiant voice, will haunt their non-Muslim neighbors, make Muslim integration into European society increasingly difficult, and compound the alienation that may lead to extremism in the first place.

Condemnation of such events has become a requisite action, especially for Muslims who are often accused of complicity through silence. But the interesting thing about condemnations is that they both judge the act and distance a community from it. It is too easy for a condemnation to morph into an abdication of responsibility to deal with the problem. Unfortunately, distancing oneself from extremism only allows it to grow unchecked. The time has come � actually, it came several years ago � for a zero-tolerance policy towards violent rhetoric in the Muslim community. It is time for shock and sorrow to give way to introspection and resoluteness. It is not enough to shun these people from our mosques and schools. We need to find them and drown out their rhetoric with our resolve to live an Islam that is an example of justice, coexistence, and compassion. Muslims need to stand against these aberrations with other Europeans � even those who are highly critical of us � and stand for an Islam that can take everything that is thrown at it and still respond with dignity and respect.

This should have been a day where Europeans of all faiths focused upon the thousands of graves of Srebrenica, pledging to never let it happen again. It should have been a day where a murderer in the Netherlands was humbled by justice, abandoned even by his religion. It should have been a day where Muslim cooperation in the seeking of justice for the London attacks illustrated their collective intent to protect their adopted homeland. All the causes that European Muslims work for and hold so dear � the plight of the Palestinians, the continuing occupation of Iraq, and racism at home � will be meaningless if the earth is scorched under their feet because of the treason of the extremists among them.

Kactuz- ah so you're Brasileno.

>>What I am saying is that trouble is coming, and there is nothing we can do.<<

Well, what definitely will not help at all is thinking things like, "Islam is full of hate," thereby losing any ability to differentiate between people who really are full of hate and people who simply have political differences with you.

Migocup,

while i certainly agree that "not worshipping God but something else" is a serious problem for folks of every religion, i must say that when you talk about other religions you really do sound like Falwell on a bad day. I refuse to go into it in any detail here, out of respect for the topic of this thread and for this forum, but believe me, you don't get it, and should stop pretending that you do. You and Kactuz both need to do a little studying.

Biomuse, you can't begin to tell me what you think i get. Come down from your throne and know that eccumenical spirit has its limits with jerks step all over Islam. I have no more cheeks to turn. Been there, tried that. Don't work with some people. Kactuz, who is a professional aggitator who mocks the Prophet Islam on other sites, is someone who is not interested in discussion, but spewing his own spiritual insecurity.

migocup

Migocup,
I don't mean to minimize your frustration if you feel like you are always having to defend your religion from those around you. I have to admit, having walked in those shoes myself, that my patience has sometimes run thin as well.

Salaam aleikum (to the Muslims)

am not here to engage in a flame war with Christian bigots...but to comment on the original article posted above...2 posts which would better help to understand *why* this stuff happens so that we as Muslims could do a better job to *prevent* misguided Muslims from going down this dead end of mindless and politically useless violence:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/comment/story/0,16141,1528997,00.html

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/comment/story/0,16141,1527435,00.html

salaam aleikum,
skh

Peace to you, gambino.

I know that you're not referring to me when you speak of bigotry, since if you were, you would no doubt have subsantiated such an insult with some kind of evidence thereof.

The links you provide are certainly good for clarifying the 'why' of things, for anyone who doesn't know.

This one goes even a bit deeper into the why of things, by consulting history and engaging the 'how' as well:

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/25D45C98-471B-4A36-8253-F2120BEA180F.htm

Salaams

First, I agree that there is violent rhetoric and a cultish minority of extremism within British Islam. It seems both drink deep from the waters of mainstream authoritarian Islam, and both are reactionary elements to the violence of colonialism and neo-colonialism.

My problem is there has actually been a great deal done in the UK to challenge this - too much, in fact. Many many mosque committees, I gather, now refuse to allow Imams to so much as mention Chechnya or Palestine - issues important to young people. This has further alienated youth from the elder generation - to what extent this drove the London bombers to live a double life - workaday Muslim to most, global jihadi terrorist to his confidantes - is a moot point.

But things could well get a lot worse. Blair has now decided he is going to 'help' Muslims get rid of extremism - and he means those Muslims who are politicised and puritanical, and who consequently challenge his values and policies. And it seems that some Muslim leaders are only too happy to go along with his plan.

And the result? I predict more home grown, 'clean skinned' terrorists in Britain, radicalised by their leaders selling out and politically motivated clampdowns. When it comes, and God I hope it doesn't, you can thank Tony and his mate Sir Iqbal for making it all possible.

Wasalaam

Yakoub

Salaam aleikum,

i agree with everything u wrote brother yakoub, but i still think u may have missed the point of the articles:

1. Most mosques in the UK (as in most of the U.S.) are so out of touch with reality and even Islam that they cease to be any impt. places of higher learning -- always talking about completely irrelevant and useless topics vs. the reality outside. As an example, I was in friday prayers in one mosque and during the invasion of Iraq when the fighting was at its most intense, the buffoon for a khateeb was giving a jum'ah khutbah on how to make wudu while everyone in the gathering had just seen TV pictures of bloodied and dead children on CNN and the BBC.

2. This is in addition to the fact that in the UK most khateebs give the friday sermon in their own languages be it bangladeshi, urdu, or kashmiri (as that is usually due to the unelected and unaccountable mosque "boards" who imported these fools in the first place). Their knowledge of Islam is practically zero coupled with the fact that even if by some mercy of god, u spoke thier particular language and understood their sermon, you wouldn't get much out of it. As even a semi-religious Muslim (or a non-practicing one desiring to better yourself) you would quickly realize that these idiots are NOT the people to go and learn anything from.

Indeed, one telling comment i've heard from many Muslims in the Muslim world, is that if your child fails at everything in life -- i.e. he was too stupid to get into engineering and your family had no connections to bribe somebody to get him into civil service, law, or medicine, than they try to make him a "sheikh". Probably best explains why they are so ignorant of the reality around them and why they are so inept at dealing with the arguments presented by jihadi recruiters.

(cont'd next post)

(cont'd from earlier post)

3. Political and ideological bankruptcy
Even for the minority few that do communicate in English and do have programs as such, their silence in the face the tyranny and biting oppression of the Western backed and subsidized regimes in the Muslim world is criminal. They lose any legitimacy that they could have had by their silence and inaction in the eyes of most Muslims. This is not even mentioning the facts that you alluded to -- some self-declared Muslim "leaders" and sufi "sheikhs" who are nothing more than media whores -- doing and denouncing anything in sight, to be seen as "loyal" and "good" by their slavemasters in power (some writers on this site have this mentality as well unfortunately)

Young kids especially are very good at picking up on the hypocracies of older people. Especially if they are already angry and confused about what is going on.

4. All of the above coupled with the fact that you have a massive communication problem between immigrant parents and their british bred kids as well as outside ignorance and discrimination (see any of the posts by some of our more enlightened missionary friends above) and you now have an unseemingly strong desire to strike out at the world.

When all of this builds up to a combustible enough mix, "acting out" by engaging in senseless and unIslamic acts of violence then seems rationalizable and even desirable. Sadly, this entire process is not confined to the UK but I would hazard a guess and say most of Europe and the Muslim World as well.

Breaking this chain requires a lot of efforts on our part, so as to offer people a better way of understanding the reality, who they are, and of how best to try and go about making meaningful change in the world.
Failure to do so, means that you should just prepare yourself for more of the same unfortunately.

salaam aleikum,
skh

Salaams

I sure know about the khutba lingo problem.

I once went to Masjid (i confess to being a too infrequent attender) and the khutbah was, as usual, in Urdu. But, noting my presence (and perhaps someone had told them I was a teacher), the Imam ended the Khutbah by saying, "And, for those of you who speak English, we have noticed the front wall of the mosque is in need of repair and a builder will come next week, insha Allah!" Somehow, I think the translation missed out a few items!!

But my mosque did have a temp Imam who was trained at the Bury Madrassa. He was SO lovely - beautiful Arabic, so humble he just blended in with every crowd, brilliant with the kids. When I heard he had gone, and they had hired this guy from ?Kenya who looked like he was chronically constipated, I quit attending.

Wasalaam

TMA

Salaam aleikum,

another article which helps give a clearer picture on this subject:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/comment/story/0,16141,1530640,00.html

>> It seems both drink deep from the waters of mainstream authoritarian Islam, and both are reactionary elements to the violence of colonialism and neo-colonialism. <<

This is a brilliant point. It seems that at some point extremists become their tormentors.

gambino - I wouldn't want to segregate different muslim communities from the broader Ummahs because their views are different. I think that this Barelwi phenomenon can and does repeat itself in other muslim communities too. ie I dont think that it is just a matter of how much education Imams have or cultural background. It should be clear that peoples native languages aren't the problem because English is much more the language of the oppressor that Urdu etc. My home language is English and over time the Ulema in my community have recognised the value of english lectures and always translate non-english lectures.

Can we somehow use exchange to empower muslims from all backgrounds instead of finding communities isolating themselves?

Can anyone tell me regarding Islamic education if there is a uniform curriculum in the US, Canada, Europe for basic Madrassa studies? ie Is there a combined effort to educate young muslims as to the basic tenets of Islam. I am of the impression that in our communities, it is the CONTEXT in which we are taught Islam (apart from family, secular schooling TV etc ) that our leanings and event the way we choose to live our life, are most determined.

Terrorist ideologies themselves have an education that we must deconstruct and disprove or it will hamper the body of the Ummah forever. Even further, we can't allow our muslims brothers and sisters to get caught up in this any more than we can allow them to get caught up in drugs etc.