This week will be remembered as a dark one in European Muslim history. At a time when Bosnian Muslims were commemorating the 10th anniversary of the Srebrenica massacre of 8000 Muslim men and boys � the worst such event in Europe since the Holocaust � two disturbing news items involving young European Muslims threatened to shake the foundations of European-Muslim relations. If not responded to in force by Europe's 20-million strong Muslim community, Srebrenica may not be a unique occurrence.

First, the news that the London terrorist attacks were carried out by youths of Pakistani descent born in Yorkshire will have profound ramifications for Muslim life in Britain. Even in the days following the London bombings, the general sense among the British was that the danger was from without, and that all Britons, including Muslims, stood shoulder to shoulder against an external threat. The discovery of the homegrown origin of the worst carnage in London since WWII shakes this relationship to the core. A level of trust that existed even through last week's terrorism is now left in tatters. The universal condemnation of the acts by British Muslim organizations matters little to non-Muslims who see four youth born of Britain and given an opportunity to contribute to British society, yet choosing to wreak havoc on it through a suicide bombing attack likely planned within their community and despite a well documented rise in religious extremism among young Muslims in Britain.

Second, we heard the chilling words of the murderer of Dutch filmmaker Theo van Gogh, who unrepentantly declared in court his resolve to "chop off the head of everyone who insults Allah or the prophet" if given another chance. He confirms the worst fears of secular Europe � that there are some out there that are willing to kill rather than talk in response to criticism of Islam or Muslims. As in the case with the London bombers, here was a Muslim who grew up steeped in European culture, language, and law, and yet chose to impose his own values and judgments on his non-Muslim neighbors through violence.

In both the British and Dutch cases, we have a European Muslim's worst nightmare � young Muslims who have been born and raised in Europe, yet who reject a peaceful coexistence with their neighbors. They see themselves as outsiders who, for whatever reason, see violence as a means for correcting the actions of their government or of fellow citizens. These people effectively say through their actions, "Submit to my will, or die." Unfortunately, it does not matter if these five individuals represent an extreme minority within the larger European Muslim community. The fact that they exist at all, and spoke with a collective defiant voice, will haunt their non-Muslim neighbors, make Muslim integration into European society increasingly difficult, and compound the alienation that may lead to extremism in the first place.

Condemnation of such events has become a requisite action, especially for Muslims who are often accused of complicity through silence. But the interesting thing about condemnations is that they both judge the act and distance a community from it. It is too easy for a condemnation to morph into an abdication of responsibility to deal with the problem. Unfortunately, distancing oneself from extremism only allows it to grow unchecked. The time has come � actually, it came several years ago � for a zero-tolerance policy towards violent rhetoric in the Muslim community. It is time for shock and sorrow to give way to introspection and resoluteness. It is not enough to shun these people from our mosques and schools. We need to find them and drown out their rhetoric with our resolve to live an Islam that is an example of justice, coexistence, and compassion. Muslims need to stand against these aberrations with other Europeans � even those who are highly critical of us � and stand for an Islam that can take everything that is thrown at it and still respond with dignity and respect.

This should have been a day where Europeans of all faiths focused upon the thousands of graves of Srebrenica, pledging to never let it happen again. It should have been a day where a murderer in the Netherlands was humbled by justice, abandoned even by his religion. It should have been a day where Muslim cooperation in the seeking of justice for the London attacks illustrated their collective intent to protect their adopted homeland. All the causes that European Muslims work for and hold so dear � the plight of the Palestinians, the continuing occupation of Iraq, and racism at home � will be meaningless if the earth is scorched under their feet because of the treason of the extremists among them.

So figure it out... Try to connect the dots. After the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 99th, 100th, etc act of terror, why are there people who haven't figured out the real problem.

The problem is that the "causes that European Muslims work for and hold so dear" are not the issues that will solve the problem. The problem is the hate and anger that is inherant to so much of Islam. As I have said before, why don't Muslims try to treat people as they want to be treated. I am talking about the hate and violence in the Islamic world and even at home. Wherever Muslims dominate, other religions, women, gays and minorities are discriminated against and oppressed. Even other groups of Muslims are persecuted. This is why Muslims have little credibility in the West. Condemning these acts is not enough. Muslims must take their condemnation home and send it back to Egypt, Arabia, Pakistan, etc... Things must change there first. Speaking out against intolerance in Britain or France is easy - try it in Islamabad, Teheran or Cairo. It is not enough to say "this is horrible" . Oh me, oh my. For God's sake, and for all people, do something! As I have said before, things are going to get a lot worse, unless there are real changes. Remember, riots in 1-2 years, full civil wars in 4-5 years. I am cynical and pessimistic. Sad! Thank you, Amanullah, for your work and efforts here at this site. You are doing your part.

Kactuz,
You comments show a true level of misunderstanding and lack of knowledge on Islam and Muslims.
"Wherever Muslims dominate, other religions, women, gays and minorities are discriminated against and oppressed. Even other groups of Muslims are persecuted."

Wow, I'm almost shocked that anyone still believes this garbage. I think your statement would be true if you had said, "Wherever Christians or Jews dominate÷.."

Despotic regimes exist worldwide and are hardly a product of religion but are mostly used as a justitification. What more would you have Muslims do. We condemn acts but many of us must live in countries that do not allow dissent and are supported by western powers. You want Muslims to speak out but their government prevents freedom of speech while being supported by the west (Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, etc).

Since you believe that Muslims should do more in Britain then where were all of the Christians during the IRA bombing period. I donĖt remember hearing the same demands being put on the Christian community

Farouk, the problem with "kactuz" is that he's an extremist moron and all around Islam hater. His comments on other threads are a testament to his stupidity and ignorance. Your points were on the money.

Aslam a lacum , Peace Be Upon You

I may not agree with many of Kactuz's statement. But what I find unnecessary is DrDriveBy's constant put down's and use of foul language to insult others.

DrDriveBy, why not have some dignity for others, yourself and your religion? You often make good points, but the issue is drowned out by your crude methodology.

Please learn more about your own religion and the gentle ways our Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) dealt with those whom he disagreed with.

Waliakum Asalam Dakota,

I treat people as they treat me. I do not like or approve of Islamophobia, nor its rabid supporters. Kactuz is a liar who uses the methodology of right wing fanatics who make no bones about their hatred for all things Islamic. Therefore I see no reason to treat hate mongers with respect. If they want respect, they better learn to give some too.
Until then I dont believe in extending any such courtesy to trolls.

Yes, well, you're clearly unbiased.blogspot.com.

Two words: Oklahoma City.
Two more words: Love works.

Ah I see another member of the flat earth society has paid us a visit. Biomuse2 said it best regarding Oklahoma City, but lest we forget the IRA, the Red Brigades, ETA and other non-muslim "terrorist" groups. I think what we have all learned is that ignorant people will use any excuse to demonize islam as will terrorist use any justification.

Steve, you are the opposite side of the same coin.

Not to underplay the seriousness of the fanaticism at work here. Not at all. Nor is it underplayed by the many morally serious individuals, some from you can see condemning the bombing of London here:

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SR3605

Of men like Yousef Al-Qaradhawi, Muhammad Hussein Fadlallah, Tariq Al-Humayd, Ali Sadr Al-Din Al-Bayanouni, Jihad Al-Khazen, I can only stand in silent respect.

Some live in countries where it is a risk to them to say what they did. Don't underestimate their courage, Stevie, because the hardcore of the Qaeda movement will take the lives of itinerant Muslims just as easily as those of others.

Their speech is not only worlds more courageous, but worlds more responsible than yours: It is criticism of one's own group, the one with which others will identify you. I mean think about that: taking responsibility for the Muslim "community". Their speech opens the path to hope and a way out of violence. Yours gets innocent muslims beaten to death.

i just want to point out that a screed from the owner of some "Islamthreat" website was removed by the moderators from above mine, 3 posts up. Mine is now, blessedly, out of context.

Just as a side note, "memri" is ran by Israeli extremists. Another disinformation front like Debka.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,773258,00.html

The collected quotes should be easy enough to check for correct and complete translation (anybody read Arabic?). Assuming they're not fabricated, i still have to admire those quoted, even if the ratio of condemnation/support is skewed unrepresentatively in their favor. Actually, especially if that's the case.

Hmm. That was almost a complete sentence, Stevie. Good boy!

So have you ever actually met a muslim? (You know, those folks with the long tails and the horns growing out of their heads?)

Seems like one of katsup's multiple personalities has been activated. Send the clown to Iraq.

In my fathers day these kids would have gotten a couple of smacks before they even thought of stepping out of line.

What is it with these self-appointed jihadis that they want to solve the problems of orphans in refugee camps by blowing up accountants, secretaries and other notable pencil pushers in London?
Hello? .. you're doing exactly the same thing that the US is doing (supposedly) to stop terrorists.

These guys blow up and humiliate civilians to stop terror, militancy, hamas (i love they way thats pronounced on CNN) .. so these guys retaliate by blowing up and humiliating civilians to stop occupation, oppression, tyranny or whatever we're labelling western society as these days. 'These guys' are beginning to make me sick - and I think we should declare all 'these guys' as jerks. Punishment - a thousand lines of
"I must stop being a naughty murderous brat" and detention for a month.

Shahed, it is rare to find someone who speaks common sense at times like these. Good work. Restrained, yet powerful, evocative yet to-the-point. There are quite a few of you out there - Hesham Hassaballah, and many other pseudonyms who identify with what this web site is meant for - healthy interaction for mutual benefit. Keep up the good work.

Muslims have their job cut out for them. No more hiding behind the Bush.

As for the miscellaneous others for whom any critic of Islam or Muslims is labelled "liar" and a "hatemonger", just Drive By, and fast... Islam and Muslims don't need you anymore. You are the breed who look the other way when Muslims oppress others, and feel victimized when someone points out a flaw in you. And while some stranger posts his/her opinions, gang up on him. When are you going to learn to have a healthy conversation and argument? How long are you going to be blind?

>>As for the miscellaneous others for whom any critic of Islam or Muslims is labelled "liar" and a "hatemonger", just Drive By, and fast... Islam and Muslims don't need you anymore.<<

Give me a break. If you make hateful and inflammatory comments, you're going to be called hateful. Grow up.

>>You are the breed who look the other way when Muslims oppress others, and feel victimized when someone points out a flaw in you.<<

This statement describes you perfectly. Those who use tragic events to come in here and unload, trying to justify weak end polemiscsm as debate. Thats your breed alright.

>>And while some stranger posts his/her opinions, gang up on him. When are you going to learn to have a healthy conversation and argument? How long are you going to be blind?<<

We're not talking about "some stranger," but extremists who use pathetic lies to slander the community. I think "kactuz" can speak for himself...unless you happen to be one of his pseudonyms. You want a conversation ? Learn to conversate in a polite and respectful manner. If not, take your blind hatred elsewhere.

Listen carefully, folks...

Muslims condemning violence by Muslims is not working. Duhhh.. Muslims have been condemning violence in the name of Islam for years. And what are the results?
1. Muslims condemn violence, violence continues.
2. Nobody believes Muslims (see item 1)

You have to try something different! Plan A is not working! Does that make sense?

This is a Islamic problem and must be solved by Muslims, I think. My suggestion is for Muslims to condemn the inequality and discrimination that exists in all the Muslim world. Make them (Muslim dominated nations) change the face of Islam. Let women drive and vote. Abolish and/or criminalize violence against women. End discrimination against other religions and foreign workers. Let other religions preach and sing and dance in the streets of Arabia, Egypt, Iran, Libya, etc÷ Try it! That is my plan B. It wonĖt hurt! It canĖt make things any worse. Or else suffer the consequences of doing nothing (but the same old things that havenĖt worked).

This is old Kactuz signing off÷ (old moron Kactuz....)

And Katsup (aka oscar) switches back to his other personality. Obviously this neglected child has now turned to theatrics and juvenille posting. Heres a plan for all the Islamophoic morons, ldiots and disingenous charlatans.

1) Stop committing terrorism, and then complain about the consequences. This includes forming organizations like Al-Qaida.

2) Stop supporting dictators, and client regimes who opress the masses, politically, militarily, financially, and otherwise. Saddam, Suharto, Marcos etc.

3)Stay out of countires where you are not welcome. This includes fabricating lies about WMDs etc.

4) End Kidnapping of innocent people and close all torture facilites.

For the Muslims,

1)Condemn terror and THATS IT. If the deaf, dumb and blind dont want to hear it, the hell with them. Tell it like it is. If they dont want to confron the reality of their action, thats their problem.

2) Muslim countries should boot out Christian missionaries, esp..Protestant fundamentalists...let him enjoy their wet dreams of armageddon in their own backyard.

3) Defending Muslim woman from exploitation by left and right wing extremists and empire worshipping dirt bags trying to use tragic events to attack Islam.

Kactuz

Regarding your last post, many of the things you so kindly recommend for Muslims to do, are fine except for missionaries dancing in the streets of Cairo or Arabia. There's this little thing about trying to dissuade people from worshipping God to worshipping a man, a concept borrowed a thousand times and with varied permutations, with trinities, Easter eggs, ascensions, blood sacrifice, crucifixions, and the rest, from old world paganism. As I said in a previous post somewhere else, the problems of the Muslim world must be dealt with, but thankfully, they are problems of the "world" not of forged theologies. Go to the grave with problems in the street is far better than leaving the world with confusion about God. One is forgivable, the latter is not. This obsession with the tribulations of the Muslim world is intellectual masturbation, people wanting to feel good about their idolatry by fantasizing on the problems elsewhere while blind to the most terrible of traumas, that is: not worshipping God, but something else.

Also, itĖs good to focus on the endemic problems of racism in this country and the demeaning of women here, who are battered left and right. And if theyĖre not battered, they are reduced to flesh, soulless beauties that sell products and programs, nothing more. But they can drive a car! Praise God!

Migocup

Hey Migocup... You know, I think I could even talk with you. Now DrDriveBy is another story. What is with him?

I just threw those ideas out for the heck of it, not that I don't think they would not but help. Also I think it won't make any difference. Sometimes I feel like the Russian pleasant in 1941, waiting for the Nazis to arrive at the village, or better, an inhabitant of Bagdad in the mid 1200s, knowing the Mongols are coming. What I am saying is that trouble is coming, and there is nothing we can do.

I have asked this before, so please tell me what is it that some Muslims have with Fundamentalist Christians? I have nevered argued here from that point of view, yet you guys (some of you) keep hitting on them. What gives?

DrDriveby. So your plan is to condemn terror. Wow! How original. Do you think it will work? You are like the generals in World War 1 (yeah, I know, a 'Christian' War) that would lose 10,000 men in one day, so what did then do the following day? Send out another 10,000 the next day to get mowed down by machine guns. Some people never learn.

Maybe you guys should come up with a plan B if you don't like mine. Condemning terror isn't working.

One last thing. If DrDriveby (or anybody else here) doesn't stop the name calling and personal attacks, I will have to answer accordingly. You know I can do it, and it will not be pretty. I am myself, only me, no one else. My name is Joao (or John). I have only posted under my 'apelido' which is kactuz. OK?

Kactuz, tchau para todos. Uma boa noite!