Like everyone else, I was warned about the blood and violence, and braced for it. But the bit about the English subscripts must have slipped my mind. One unexpected thing I got out of watching "The Passion of the Christ" is its affirmation that Jesus never uttered the word "God." Instead, he called upon the Creator using a name that is very close to what I and other Muslims often evoke, namely, the word "Allah." (The Aramaic word for God is transliterated as "alaha.")

In a broad sense, "The Passion," as well as the controversy that stalks it, is an extension of the very long struggle for narrative control over the life and mission of Jesus. We, the American public, are given the impression that the discussion about the movie and its main character is a discourse between folks on both sides of a curious hyphen in the Judeo-Christian ambit, with Rabbis and Jewish intelligentsia expressing their fears that the movie will inspire anti-Semitism and with Christians denying that.

The irony here is that Muslims are perfectly poised to offer a view that no one seems to be talking about. What "The Passion" depicted in chilling imagery is but one narrative among several about Christ. In fact, Gibson portrayed one "canonized" narrative of Christ (only 12 hours of it) that received approval some centuries after the Messiah had lived and one that does not enjoy consensus even in Christian quarters and scholarship.

When asked, a Muslim will tell you that Christ was not sent to die, but, like the prophets before him and Prophet Muhammad after him, he was sent to live and teach. In short, a Muslim would say there is no Christ killer and, therefore, no need to associate anyone with that indictment and no need to cause anyone to fear it. What happened to Jesus at the end of his life was not about violence, but about honor in the face of vehement rejection. God raised His prophet to Himself, thus sparing Jesus of the execution Gibson so graphically detailed and imprinted in the public mind through the very powerful medium of art and culture. This is a view that was also shared among some early Christian sects, like the Basilideans, who believed that Christ himself was never crucified.

To vilify Jesus and deny that he is one of God's prophets and messengers is a cardinal sin in Islam, enough to disqualify one from the faith. To deify Jesus, however, is considered an affront to the primordial foundation of the religion project: the oneness of God and His sole divinity. The Muslim "middle" view here is not a self-conscious act of officiating a religious debate between Jews and Christians. Our understanding and beliefs regarding Christ are essentially identical to the beliefs we have about Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Muhammad: all prophets, all humans, sent by God to teach humanity certain things that should keep us guided and clear in our very brief lives. If we are ever to be confused about something, let it not be about God and His divinity, and humankind and our humanity, especially as it pertains to our salvation quest. In Islamic theology, the human being is born pure, brought into this world in a state of grace. The concept of Original Sin is essentially homeless in our tradition. We inherit eye color and receding hairlines from our parents, not their wrongdoing. Forgiveness, pardoning, and mercy are of God's essence, and He generously bestows them for the cool price of belief and sincerity.

In an important way, "The Passion" is an accidental expose about the religious sensitivities of our times, about a wounded spirituality that seems to require sensationalism to keep the faithful going. This is a point that men and women of religion may all agree upon and observe in their respective flocks. Mel Gibson unwittingly may have done a service in raising issues indigenous to the human spirit that the postmodern world seems to shun, issues about God, prophets, salvation, mercy, and hope. It's a vital conversation with divides and alliances, passions and perils, but a conversation that nonetheless can stand to hear the "middle" view that Islam naturally offers. Something of this view, in unavoidably brief fashion, now follows:

Muslims love and revere Jesus, and believe in him as a Prophet and Messenger of God, a great teacher and guide for people. But Muslims do not believe that Jesus was God or the Son of God. Nor do Muslims believe that he was slain on the cross, as some early sects of Christians had once believed. Jesus was sent to the Children of Israel to revive faith and a spiritual connection with God. All the miracles that Jesus performed were indeed true: raising the dead, healing the blind and the leper, and more. These miracles, however, occurred through the auspices of God's power and will, as it was with the splitting of the sea for Moses, Solomon understanding the utterances of animals, and many other suspensions of the natural order. God is the Creator, and when He determines something, He but says to it "Be" and it is! (as the Qur'an states). Muslims venerate Mary, the mother of Jesus. She indeed gave birth to Jesus though she was a virgin. She was a spiritual woman who was chosen among her people to the office of special contemplation and prayer. But Muslims do not hold her to be the "mother of God" and similar attributes. She too was fully human and was a beloved and important person in a remarkable series of miracles in a special time in human history. Every biology and miracle, the explainable and the inexplicable, whether it is the creation of Adam from clay or the conception of any given child of two parents, goes back to God. It is all the same to Him. All of it easy. All of it His.

In Islamic parlance, Jesus (peace be upon him) is known by the venerable titles of "Word" and "Spirit," since the Qur'an tells us that God cast the "word" or "spirit" upon Mary, the Mother of Jesus. "Indeed, the angels said: 'O Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in this world and the Hereafter, and he shall be among those brought near [to God]. He will speak to humankind in the cradle and in manhood, and he is of the righteous" (Qur'an, 3:45).

Also, the Qur'an states: "The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was but a Messenger of God, and His word which He conveyed to Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him" (Qur'an, 4:171). "And indeed God gave Moses the Book [Torah], and after him We sent Messengers in succession. We gave Jesus son of Mary clear proofs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit [Angel Gabriel]" (Qur'an, 2:87).

The thought life of a Muslim with regard to all the prophets is best summed by the following verse of the Qur'an "Say [O believers]: "We believe in God and [the Book] sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes; and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to [all] the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him do we surrender ourselves" (Qur'an 2:136).

In addition to this antimessiah, we find bishops, nay popes with the name of the effeminate pagan god of wine and theater - Dionysius of Alexandria-saint and bishop, Dionysius,-pope and saint, Dionysius of Corinth-saint, Dionysius of Milan- bishop, Dionysius of Tellmahre-bishop, Dionysus of the Nativity-missionary, saint and even Dionysius the Pseudo-Areopagite who wrote a text promoting and defending the trinity and platonic philosophy. The exact identity of this person is really unknown. One speculation is that he was a Christian of Syrian origin who lived in Athens and was educated by Proclus and Damascius and remained deeply influenced by them. By the fifth century the Athenian school was frequented by various Syrians. Marinus, Proclusǃ٠successor, was a Palestinian who abandoned Judaism for Hellenism (Monotheism for Polytheistic paganism). The Dionysius in question must have been part of this circle. IsnǃÙt it reasonable that a man with a Greek pagan name support and defend Greek pagan ideas?

Mr. Dutra wrote, " No, you haven't proved that. You are still feeding on anti-Christian propaganda by either Muslim militant or liberal theologians." Wrong again Mr. Dutra! Stay tuned and learn what they didn't teach you in Sunday school!
The trinity as part of the antimessiah doctrine, this man-made imposition on human logic and Divine revelation, has a history that Bishop Dionysius forgot to tell us about in his Corpus:
A.D. 32. About this time some of the Gospels were recorded, ǃ˙I ascend unto my Father and your father and to my God and your God.ǃ˘
A.D. 57 About this time Paul wrote, ǃ˙There is no other God but one. To us there is but One God and Father and Son, Jesus Christǃ˘
A.D. 96 About this time Clement wrote, ǃ˙Christ was sent by God and the Apostles were sent by Christ.ǃ˘
A.D. 120 The ApostleǃÙs Creed begins to be known to the Church. It says, ǃ˙I believe in God the Father Almighty.ǃ˘
A.D. 150 Justin Martyr about this time began with Platonic philosophy to further corrupt Christian simplicity.
A.D. 170 The word ǃ˙Triasǃ˘ first occurs in Christian literature.
A.D. 200 The word ǃ˙Trinitasǃ˘ is first used by Tertullian.
A.D. 230 Origen writes against prayers being offered to Christ.
A.D. 260 Sabellius taught that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are three names for the same God.
A.D. 300 No Trinitarian form of prayer is yet known to the Church.
A.D. 310 Lactanius writes that ǃ˙Christ never called himself God!ǃ˘
A.D. 320 Eusebius writes; ǃ˙Christ teaches us to call his Father, the true God and to worship Him.ǃ˘
A.D. 325 The Council of Nicea agrees to call Christ God of God, very God of very God.
A.D. 350 Great conflicts in the Church about the doctrine of Trinity.
A.D. 370 The doxology, ǃ˙Glory be to the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghostǃ˘ composed and objected to as a novelty.
A.D. 381 The Council of Constantinople gives the finishing touch to the doctrine of ǃ˙three Persons in One God.ǃ˘
A.D. 383 The Emperor Theodosius threatened to punish all who would not believe in and worship the Trinity.7
So the doctrine of the Trinity promoted by the false Dionysius is itself false and as mysterious in its origin as the identity of its propagator!

Last and by no means the least, we have Saint Dionysius of Paris. According to Gregory of Tours, Denis was sent to Gaul in 250 A.D. with six other bishops. They went to different villages and towns separately. Dionysius was made Bishop of Paris and lived on an island in the Seine with his companions, Eleutherius, a deacon, and Rusticus, a priest. Their successful preaching angered the local pagan rulers and all three were beheaded by the Gaul. According to legend, Denis (as the Gaul call him) carried his own head two miles to the spot where the abbey of St. Denis, later the burial place for the kings of France, was built over his tomb. To enhance the fame of the abbey, Abbot Hilduin in the 9th century wrote a treatise to prove that St. Denis was Denys the Areopagite, actually a 5th century Christian Platonist, but called Pseudo-Denys. because he identified himself as the Dionysius of Athens who was converted by Paul of Tarsus. This lie had the effect of linking the St. Denis with the early days of Christianity and dating the foundation of the see of Paris to late apostolic times. One of his basilica is at Bordeaux. So we have St. Dionysius the patron saint of France, the country famous for its wine (Bordeaux), with a patron saint whose name gives glory to the Greek pagan god of wine! This sad state of affairs has occurred because of the corruption of the original scriptures. It does not matter if you go back to the so-called ǃ˙originalǃ˘ Greek manuscripts because the original manuscripts were in Aramaic!

its foundation in the worship of Dios (Zeus)

Can't you understand the concept of translation and that of semantic shift?

It is not Dios, but Theos. Much before the New Testament came along, for example in the writings of Plato, Theos (Dios in Spanish, Deus in Portuguese, the English God has a totally diverse origin) while originally having been the word for Zeus had already came to be used as meaning the uncreated Creator, to whom the Greek philosophers thought the lesser gods, including Zeus, were submitted as creatures. Check Plato's arguments on God and the gods in The Republic.

So when YHWH, Adonai Elohim and the other names of God in Hebrew needed to be translated to Greek the concept and the word for the uncreated Creator already existed to be fleshed out so as to speak. Similarly, the Son of God could be called Logos (the Verb, or the Word) because the concept itself had already been philosophed out by the Greeks. Nevertheless it is clear by all the Hebrew and Aramaic words and expressions and grammatical constructs, as by the subject matter itself, that the New Testament was written in Greek, or translated from the Aramaic, by Hebrews.

Sorry Haji, but you are where I was some ten years ago: too argumentative to learn anything.

As we have learned before, the Old Testament was ǃ˙greek-a-fiedǃ˘ in Alexandria, Egypt to the horror of the Jewish people of Palestine. And it is this corrupt Greek text that is the Old Testament we have in the western bible today. The Catholic bible or Douey version is not the infallible word of God as it is based on the Greek text as translated by the likes of St. Dionysus into Latin among others. The King James version is even further away from being GodǃÙs Word as it suffers from gross misinterpretations as well as basic errors. Let us go to Mr. George M. LamsaǃÙs introduction to the Aramaic bible to learn more about the 1611 English mistake. ǃ˙When the King James translation was made, western scholars had no access to the East as we have today. In the 16th century, A.D., the Turkish empire had extended its borders as far as Vienna. One European country after another was falling under the impact of the valiant Turkish army. Europe was almost conquered. This is not all. The reformations and controversies in the Western Church had destroyed Christian unity. Moreover, the Scriptures in Aramaic were unknown in Europe. The only recourse scholars had was to Latin and to a few portions of Greek manuscripts. This is clearly seen from the works of Erasmus. Besides, the knowledge of Greek was almost lost at this time and Christians were just emerging from the Dark Ages.
Many people have asked why the King Jamesǃ٠translators did not use the Peshitta text from Aramaic or the Scriptures used in the East. The answer is: there were no contacts between East and West until after the conquest of India by Great Britain and the rise of the imperial power of Britain in the Near East, Middle East, and the Far East.ǃ˘ We see that the western Christian reliance on the bible as the ǃ˙final arbiter of truthǃ˘ is a shaky reliance at bes

Mr. Dutra wrote:"Sorry Haji, but you are where I was some ten years ago: too argumentative to learn anything." Wrong again Mr. Dutra - ten years later and you're still there! What I have learned is that Christians are bent on deceit! You have to scroll up a ways and check the previous post for the reference to Zeus which by now on this page has been explained. The name or the translation is not the main issue at this level of the discussion but the validity of the man-god concept is. The reference to the old pagan Greek father god and the belief system promoted by the heathen Greeks indicates that the man-god trinitarian Christians promote had an origin other than G-d, who revealed scriptures to humanity. As Muslims, we believe in one G-d and invite you to do the same. The issue will be resolved soon as death is rapidly approaching and our intentions and deeds will be exposed. What is your intention, Mr. Dutra? Why are you insisting on calling Muslims to a falsehood-a falsehood so serious as to condemn our souls to eternal damnation? The message of the Messiah(pbuh) was that Allaha is one and that the awaited prophet was to arrive soon. We as Muslims believe in the Messiah's message and the follow the prophet he announced would arrive. We invite you to do the same before your death and resurrection. There on the Day of Religion, the Messiah(peace be upon him) will be asked by Allah(swt) to tell all of humanity assembled what was his true role and station. We have a preview of this discussion in the Quran for all the world to read. If you have read it, then you know what it says and if you are honest, have no business trying to deceive the faithful with worn-out heathen lies from distant centuries B.C.

What does the AllahǃÙs word say about the trinity and the divinity of the Messiah (pbuh)?
73. Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one God, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve. (Sura 5 Ayat 73)
171. O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only an apostle of Allah and his Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His apostles, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one God; far be it from His glory that He Should have a son; whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His; and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.
172. The Messiah does by no means disdain that he should be a servant of Allah, nor do the angels who are near to Him, and whoever disdains His service and is proud, He will gather them all together to Himself. (Sura 4 Ayats 171, 172)

More from the Quran:
Bismillahihrahmaniraheem
72. Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah, He is the Messiah, son of Marium; and the Messiah said; 0 children of Israel! Serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Surely whoever associates (others) with Allah, then Allah has forbidden to him the garden, and his abode is the fire; and there shall be no helpers for the unjust. (Sura 5 Ayat 72)
75. The Messiah, son of Marium is but an apostle; apostles before him have indeed passed away; and his mother was a truthful woman; they both used to eat food. See how We make the communications clear to them, then behold, how they are turned away. (Sura 5 Ayat 75)

More from the Quran:
Bismillahihrahmaniraheem
16. And mention Marium in the Book when she drew aside from her family to an eastern place;
17. So she took a veil (to screen herself) from them; them We sent to her Our spirit, and there appeared to her a well-made man.
18. She said: Surely I fly for refuge from you to the Beneficent God, if you are one guarding (against evil).
19. He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.
20. She said: When shall I have a boy and no mortal has yet touched me, nor have I been unchaste?
21. He said: Even so; your Lord says: it is easy to Me: and that We may make him a sign to men and a mercy from Us; and it is a matter which has been decreed.
22. So she conceived him; then withdrew herself with him to a remote place.
23. And the throes (of childbirth) compelled her to betake herself to the truck of a palm tree.
She said: Oh, would that I had died before this, and had been a thing quite forgotten!
24. Then (the child) called out to her from beneath her: Grieve not, surely your Lord has made a stream to flow beneath you;
25. And shake towards you the trunk of the palm tree, it will drop on you fresh ripe dates:
26. So eat and drink and refresh the eye. Then if you see any mortal, say: Surely I have vowed a fast to the Beneficent God, so I shall not speak to any man today.
27. And she came to her people with him, carrying him (with her). They said: 0 Marium! surely you have done a strange thing.
28. O sister of Haroun! Your father was not a bad man, nor was your mother an unchaste woman.

29. But she pointed to him. They said: How should we speak to one who was a child in the cradle?
30. He said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet;
(cont..)

More from the Quran:
Bismillahihrahmaniraheem
31. And He has made me blessed wherever I may be, and He has enjoined on me prayer and poor-rate so long as I live;
32. And dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me insolent, unblessed;
33. And peace on me on the day I was born, and on the day I die, and the day I am raised to life.
34. Such is Isa, son of Marium; (this is) the saying of truth about which they dispute.
35. It beseems not Allah that He should take to Himself a son, glory be to Him; when He has
decreed a matter He says to it ǃ˙Be,ǃ˘ and it is.
36. And surely Allah is my Lord and your Lord, therefore serve Him; this is the right path.
37. But parties from among them disagree with each other, so woe to those who disbelieve,
because of presence on a great day.
38. How clearly shall they hear and how clearly shall they see on the day when they come to Us; but the unjust this day are in manifest error.
39. And warn them of the day of intense regret, when the matter shall have been decided; and they are (now) in negligence and they do no believe.
40. Surely We inherit the earth and all those who are on it, and
to Us they shall be returned. (Sura 19 Ayats 16-40)

More from the Quran:
Bismillahihrahmaniraheem
68. Say: O followers of the book! You follow no good till you keep up the Taurat and the Injeel and that which is revealed to you from your Lord; and surely that which has been revealed to you from your Lord shall make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; grieve not therefore for the unbelieving people. (Sura 5 Ayat 68)
154. And We lifted the mountain (Sinai) over them at (the taking of the covenant) and We said to them: Enter the door making obeisance; and We said to them: Do not exceed the limits of the Sabbath; and We made with them a firm covenant.
155. Therefore, for their breaking of the covenant and their disbelief in the communications of Allah and their killing the prophets wrongfully and their saying: Our hearts are covered; nay, Allah set a seal upon them owing to their unbelief, so they shall not believe except a few.
156. And for their unbelief and for their having uttered against Marium a grievous calumny.
157. And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
158. Nay! Allah took him up to Himself; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.(Sura 4 Ayats 154-158)
55. And when Allah said: 0 Isa, I am going to terminate the period of your stay (on earth) and cause you to ascend unto Me and purify you of those who disbelieve and make those who follow you above those who disbelieve to the day of resurrection; then to Me shall be your return, so I will decide between you concerning that in which you differed.
56. Then as to those who disbelieve, I will chastise them with severe chastisement in this world and the hereafter, and they shall have no helpers.
57. And as to those who believe and do good deeds, He will pay them fully their rewards; and Allah does not love the unjust.
58. This We recite to you of the communications and the wise reminder.
(contd..)

More from the Quran:
Bismillahihrahmaniraheem
59. Surely the likeness of Isa is with Allah as the likeness of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, Be, and he was.
60. (This is) the truth from your Lord, so be not of the disputers.
61. But whoever disputes with you in this manner after what has come to you of knowledge,then say: Come let us call our sons and your sons and our women and your women and our near
people and your near people, then let us be earnest in prayer, and pray for the curse of Allah on the liars.
62. Most surely this is the true explanation, and there is no god but Allah; and most surely Allah-He is the Mighty, the Wise. (Sura 3 Ayats 55-62)
78. Those who disbelieved from among the children of Israel were cursed by the tongue of Dawood and Isa, son of Marium; this was because they disobeyed and used to exceed the limit.
79. They used not to forbid each other the hateful things (which) they did; certainly evil is that which they did.
80. You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide.

81. And had they believed in Allah and the prophet and what was revealed to him, they would not have taken them for friends, but most of them are transgressors.
82. Certainly you will find the most violent of people in enmity for those who believe (to be) the Jews and those who are polytheists, and you will certainly find the nearest in friendship to those who believe (to be) those who say: We are Christian; this is because there are priests and monks among them and because they do not behave proudly.
83. And when they hear what has been revealed to the apostle, you will see their eyes overflowing with tears on account of the truth that they recognize; they say: Our Lord! we believe, so write us down with the witnesses (of truth).
84. And what (reason) have we that we should not believe in Allah and in the truth that has come to us, while we earnestly desire that our Lord should cause us to enter with the good people?
85. Therefore Allah rewarded them on account of what they said, with gardens in which rivers flow to abide in them; and this is the reward of those who do good (to others).
86. And (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, these are the companions of the flame. (Sura 5 Ayats 78-86)

The Messiah's statement on the Day Of Religion from the Quran:
Bismillahihrahmaniraheem
109. On the day when Allah will assemble the apostles, then say: What answer were you given? They shall say: We have no knowledge, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.
110. When Allah will say: 0 Isa son of Marium! Remember My favor on you and on your mother, when I strengthened you with the holy Spirit, you spoke to the people in the cradle and when of old age, and when I taught you the Book and the wisdom and the Taurat and the Injeel; and when you determine out of clay a thing like the form of a bird by My permission, then you breathed into it and it became a bird by My permission, and you healed the blind and the leprous by My permission; and when you brought forth the dead by My permission; and when I withheld the children of Israel from you when you came to them with clear arguments, but those who disbelieved among them said; This is nothing but clear enchantment.
111. And when I revealed to the disciples, saying, Believe in Me and My apostle, They said: We believe and bear witness that we submit (ourselves).
112. When the disciples said: 0 Isa son of Marium! Will your Lord consent to send down to us food from heaven? He said: Be careful of (your duty to) Allah if you are believers.
113. They said: We desire that we should eat of it and that our hearts should be at rest, and that we may know that you have indeed spoken the truth to us and that we may be of the witnesses to it.
(contd..)

Bismillahihrahmaniraheem
114. Isa the son of Marium said: 0 Allah, our Lord! Send down to us food from heaven which should be to us an ever recurring happiness, to the first of us and the last of us, and a sign from Thee, and grant us means of subsistence, and Thou art the best of the Providers.
115. Allah said: Surely I will send it down to you, but whoever shall disbelieve afterwards from among you, surely I will chastise him with a chastisement with which I will not chastise anyone among the nations.
116. And when Allah will say: 0 Isa son of Marium! Did you say to men, Take me and my mother for two gods besides Allah, he will say: Glory be to Thee, it did not befit me that I should say what I had no right to (say); if I had said it, Thou wouldst indeed have known it; Thou knowest what is in my mind, and I do not know what is in Thy mind, surely Thou art the great Knower of the unseen things.
117. I did not say to them aught save what Thou didst enjoin me with: That serve Allah, my Lord and your Lord, and I was a witness of them so long as I was among them, but when Thou didst cause me to die, Thou wert the watcher over them, and Thou art witness of all things.
118. If Thou shouldst chastise them, then surely they are Thy servants; and if Thou shouldst forgive them, then surely Thou art the Mighty, the Wise.
119. Allah will say: This day when their truth shall benefit the truthful ones; they shall have gardens beneath which rivers flow to abide in them forever: Allah is well pleased with them and
they are well pleased with Allah; this is the mighty achievement.
120. AllahǃÙs is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is in them; and He has power over all things.

After this, Christians that read or post comments must ponder these verses:
Bismillahihrahmaniraheem
98. Say: O followers of the Book! why do you disbelieve in the communications of Allah? And Allah is a witness of what you do.
99. Say: O followers of the Book! why do you hinder him who believes from the way of Allah? You seek (to make) it crooked, while you are witness, and Allah is not heedless of what you do. (Sura 3 Ayats 98, 99)
28. He sets forth to you a parable relating to yourselves: Have you among those whom your right hands possess partners in what We have given you for sustenance, so that with respect to it you are alike; you fear them as you fear each other? Thus do We make the communications distinct for a people who understand.
29. Nay! those who are unjust follow their low desires without any knowledge; so who can guide him whom Allah makes err? And they shall have no helpers.
30. Then set your face upright for religion in the right state- the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of AllahǃÙs creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know.
31. Turning to Him, and be careful of (your duty to) Him, and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists,
32. Of those who divided their religion and became sects, every sect rejoicing in what they had with them. (Sura 30 Ayats 28-32)
64. Say: O followers of the Book! come to an equitable proposition between us and you that we shall not serve any but Allah and (that) we shall not associate aught with Him, and (that) some of us shall not take others for lords besides Allah; but if they turn back, then say: Bear witness that we are Muslims. (Sura 3 Ayat 64)

Haji, I didn't mention the Greek translation of the Old Testament even once. I mentioned the Dead Sea Scrolls of Qumran, which were written in ancient Hebrew and Aramaic. Your arguments against the Greek translations don't add a thing to your argument because your argument is irrelevant to my quotes.

(I notice that you allege that the Catholic OT is corrupted. Incidentally, I am an ex-Catholic Christian. The Protestant Old Testament is the same as the Hebrew Cannon except for the order of the books. I didn't quote you the Catholic OT.)

Manuscript evidence shows that the Bible is sound. The Qur'an doesn't say that the Bible is corrupted; in fact, it implies the opposite!

Al Qur'an 10:94
"If you doubt what We have revealed to you, ask those [e.g. Jews and Christians] who have read the Scriptures [the Bible] before you"

The Qur'an never alleges that the Bible was corrupted! In fact, it urges those with prior scripture to believe in it:

Al Qur'an 4:47
You to whom the Scriptures were given! Believe in that which We have revealed, confirming your own Scriptures, before We obliterate your faces and turn them backward, or lay Our curse on you.

Muhammad had his ministry in the 600's A.D. There are tens of thousands of surviving manuscripts of the New Testament way older than that! (And that's not even counting all the ones which were lost; the number was probably far higher in Muhammad's day.) When Muhammad was told the above verses, the Scriptures availiable at the time were the Old and New Testament with the same content that we have today. In fact, all modern Bibles are based on and translated from the oldest ancient manuscripts. The manuscript evidence proves that the Bible we have today is uncorrupted. Take it or leave it, but don't give me this "corrupted scripture" myth. Historians don't take such allegations seriously because those who make them don't take history seriously.

Hi dear friends,
I've been reading this rather lengthy discussion :) and maybe you'd be enlightened by this excellent study [The Bible, The Qur'an and Science by Dr. Maurice Bucaille (french). THE HOLY SCRIPTURES EXAMINED IN THE LIGHT
OF MODERN KNOWLEDGE Translated from French by Alastair D. Pannell and The Author] It might be lengthy but it's a good read I must say...

An excerpt as follows:-
At the end of this study, a fact that stands forth very clearly is that the predominant opinion held in the West on the Texts of the Holy Scriptures we possess today is hardly very realistic. We have seen the conditions, times and ways in which the elements constituting the Old Testament, the Gospels and the Qur'an were collected and written down: the circumstances attendant upon the birth of the Scriptures for these three Revelations differed widely in each case, a fact which had extremely important consequences concerning the authenticity of the texts and certain aspects of their contents.

The Old Testament represents a vast number of literary works written over a period of roughly nine hundred years. It forms a highly disparate mosaic whose pieces have, in the course of centuries, been changed by man. Some parts were added to what already existed, so that today it is sometimes very difficult indeed to identify where they came from originally.

Through an account of Jesus's words and deeds, the Gospels were intended to make known to men the teachings he wished to leave them on completion of his earthly mission. Unfortunately, the authors of the Gospels were not eyewitnesses of the data they recorded. They were spokesmen who expressed data that were quite simply the information that had been preserved by the various Judeo-Christian communities on Jesus's public life, passed down by oral traditions or writings which no longer exist today, and which constituted an intermediate stage between the oral tradition and the definitive texts.

This is the light in which the Judeo-Christian Scriptures should be viewed today, and-to be objective-one should abandon the classic concepts held by experts in exegesis.

Continued÷ (2/3)

The inevitable result of the multiplicity of sources is the existence of contradictions and oppositions: many examples have been given of these. The authors of the Gospels had (when talking of Jesus) the same tendency to magnify certain facts as the poets of French Medieval literature in their narrative poems. The consequence of this was that events were presented from each individual narrator's point of view and the authenticity of the facts reported in many cases proved to be extremely dubious. In view of this, the few statements contained in the Judeo-Christian Scriptures which may have something to do with modern knowledge should always be examined with the circumspection that the questionable nature of their authenticity demands.
Contradictions, improbabilities and incompatibilities with modern scientific data may be easily explained in terms of what has just been said above. Christians are nevertheless very surprised when they realize this, so great have been the continuous and far-reaching efforts made until now by many official commentators to camouflage the very obvious results of modern studies, under cunning dialectical acrobatics orchestrated by apologetic lyricism. A case in point are the genealogies of Jesus given in Matthew and Luke, which were contradictory and scientifically unacceptable. Examples have been provided which reveal this attitude very clearly. John's Gospel has been given special attention because there are very important differences between it and the other three Gospels, especially with regard to the fact that his Gospel does not describe the institution of the Eucharist: this is not generally known.
The Qur'anic Revelation has a history which is fundamentally different from the other two. It spanned a period of some twenty years and, as soon as it was transmitted to Muhammad by Archangel Gabriel, Believers learned it by heart. It. was also written down during Muhammad's life. The last recensions of the Qur'an were effected under Caliph Uthman starting some twelve years after the Prophet's death and finishing twenty-four years after it. They had the advantage of being checked by people who already knew the text by heart, for they had learned it at the time of the Revelation itself and had subsequently recited it constantly. Since then, we know that the text has been scrupulously preserved. It does not give rise to any problems of authenticity.

Continued (3/3)

The Qur'an follows on from the two Revelations that preceded it and is not only free from contradictions in its narrations, the sign of the various human manipulations to be found in the Gospels, but provides a quality all of its own for those who examine it objectively and in the light of science i.e. its complete agreement with modern scientific data. What is more, statements are to be found in it (as has been shown) that are connected with science: and yet it is unthinkable that a man of Muhammad's time could have been the author of them. Modern scientific knowledge therefore allows us to understand certain verses of the Qur'an which, until now, it has been impossible to interpret.

The comparison of several Biblical and Qur'anic narrations of the same subject shows the existence of fundamental differences between statements in the former, which are scientifically unacceptable, and declarations in the latter which are in perfect agreement with modern data: this was the case of the Creation and the Flood, for example. An extremely important complement to the Bible was found in the text of the Qur'an on the subject of the history of the Exodus, where the two texts were very much in agreement with archaeological findings, in the dating of the time of Moses. Besides, there are major differences between the Qur'an and the Bible on the other subjects: they serve to disprove all that has been maintained-without a scrap of evidence-concerning the allegation that Muhammad is supposed to have copied the Bible to produce the text of the Qur'an.

When a comparative study is made between the statements connected with science to be found in the collection of hadiths, which are attributed to Muhammad but are often of dubious authenticity (although they reflect the beliefs of the period), and the data of a similar kind in the Qur'an, the disparity becomes so obvious that any notion of a common origin is ruled out.

In view of the level of knowledge in Muhammad's day, it is inconceivable that many of the statements In the Qur'an which are connected with science could have been the work of a man. It is, moreover, perfectly legitimate, not only to regard the Qur'an as the expression of a Revelation, but also to award it a very special place, on account of the guarantee of authenticity it provides and the presence in it of scientific statements which, when studied today, appear as a challenge to explanation in human terms.

{The End}

To add on, an excerpt from another:-

Another misunderstanding Muslims often fall into concerns the Bible. Christian missionaries in almost every discussion of the Quran assert that the Quran asks Muslims to believe in the Bible as a revelation of God. Many Muslims tend to fall into this trap by saying that "we believe in the Bible as revealed book." Once the Muslim accepts this fact, the evangelist can point out that the Bible contradicts the Quran and that since the Bible has precedence over the Quran and since Muslims are required to believe in it, it therefore logically follows that the Bible is right and the Quran is wrong. But the Quran says no such thing.

There is no reference to the Bible in the Quran whatsoever. The Quran mentions the Taurat and the Injil. The Taurat is the book given to prophet Moses. This is not the equivalent of the Torah/Pentateuch of the Jews and Christians, since much of it was not written by prophet Moses. And the Taurat is definitely not the Old Testament since the OT includes dozens of books attributed to other prophets before Jesus. The Injil is translated as the Gospel revealed to prophet Jesus. This is not the New Testament. The New Testament is a collection of 4 biographies of Christ, 27 epistles of St. Paul, and other books on the lives and adventures on the followers of Christ. There is no record of a book revealed to Jesus. Perhaps the closest to it are the words of Jesus himself, which constitutes less than 10% of the NT. Therefore to say that Christians changed the Bible is an inaccurate statement, and can cause trouble in a discussion.

The Bible, or at least the New Testament, cannot be an altered copy of the Injil because it is a completely different book. In fact, the original Bible or New Testament (the very first one) did not correspond to the Injil, Taurat, or Zabur in the first place. It doesn't matter how unreliably it was transmitted; the Bible does not correspond to the Quranic Injil.

It is not that the Christians have changed the original, but rather they have the wrong book, altogether. The words of Christ are possibly the closest thing to the Injil. The recently discovered Gospel of Thomas, which is nothing but a list of sayings of Jesus, is even closer to the Islamic concept of Injil. Therefore, it should be kept in mind in discussion with Christians that the Bible has not been changed, but rather the original documents chosen as the word of God were incorrect.

{End of excerpt}