Like everyone else, I was warned about the blood and violence, and braced for it. But the bit about the English subscripts must have slipped my mind. One unexpected thing I got out of watching "The Passion of the Christ" is its affirmation that Jesus never uttered the word "God." Instead, he called upon the Creator using a name that is very close to what I and other Muslims often evoke, namely, the word "Allah." (The Aramaic word for God is transliterated as "alaha.")

In a broad sense, "The Passion," as well as the controversy that stalks it, is an extension of the very long struggle for narrative control over the life and mission of Jesus. We, the American public, are given the impression that the discussion about the movie and its main character is a discourse between folks on both sides of a curious hyphen in the Judeo-Christian ambit, with Rabbis and Jewish intelligentsia expressing their fears that the movie will inspire anti-Semitism and with Christians denying that.

The irony here is that Muslims are perfectly poised to offer a view that no one seems to be talking about. What "The Passion" depicted in chilling imagery is but one narrative among several about Christ. In fact, Gibson portrayed one "canonized" narrative of Christ (only 12 hours of it) that received approval some centuries after the Messiah had lived and one that does not enjoy consensus even in Christian quarters and scholarship.

When asked, a Muslim will tell you that Christ was not sent to die, but, like the prophets before him and Prophet Muhammad after him, he was sent to live and teach. In short, a Muslim would say there is no Christ killer and, therefore, no need to associate anyone with that indictment and no need to cause anyone to fear it. What happened to Jesus at the end of his life was not about violence, but about honor in the face of vehement rejection. God raised His prophet to Himself, thus sparing Jesus of the execution Gibson so graphically detailed and imprinted in the public mind through the very powerful medium of art and culture. This is a view that was also shared among some early Christian sects, like the Basilideans, who believed that Christ himself was never crucified.

To vilify Jesus and deny that he is one of God's prophets and messengers is a cardinal sin in Islam, enough to disqualify one from the faith. To deify Jesus, however, is considered an affront to the primordial foundation of the religion project: the oneness of God and His sole divinity. The Muslim "middle" view here is not a self-conscious act of officiating a religious debate between Jews and Christians. Our understanding and beliefs regarding Christ are essentially identical to the beliefs we have about Noah, Abraham, Moses, and Muhammad: all prophets, all humans, sent by God to teach humanity certain things that should keep us guided and clear in our very brief lives. If we are ever to be confused about something, let it not be about God and His divinity, and humankind and our humanity, especially as it pertains to our salvation quest. In Islamic theology, the human being is born pure, brought into this world in a state of grace. The concept of Original Sin is essentially homeless in our tradition. We inherit eye color and receding hairlines from our parents, not their wrongdoing. Forgiveness, pardoning, and mercy are of God's essence, and He generously bestows them for the cool price of belief and sincerity.

In an important way, "The Passion" is an accidental expose about the religious sensitivities of our times, about a wounded spirituality that seems to require sensationalism to keep the faithful going. This is a point that men and women of religion may all agree upon and observe in their respective flocks. Mel Gibson unwittingly may have done a service in raising issues indigenous to the human spirit that the postmodern world seems to shun, issues about God, prophets, salvation, mercy, and hope. It's a vital conversation with divides and alliances, passions and perils, but a conversation that nonetheless can stand to hear the "middle" view that Islam naturally offers. Something of this view, in unavoidably brief fashion, now follows:

Muslims love and revere Jesus, and believe in him as a Prophet and Messenger of God, a great teacher and guide for people. But Muslims do not believe that Jesus was God or the Son of God. Nor do Muslims believe that he was slain on the cross, as some early sects of Christians had once believed. Jesus was sent to the Children of Israel to revive faith and a spiritual connection with God. All the miracles that Jesus performed were indeed true: raising the dead, healing the blind and the leper, and more. These miracles, however, occurred through the auspices of God's power and will, as it was with the splitting of the sea for Moses, Solomon understanding the utterances of animals, and many other suspensions of the natural order. God is the Creator, and when He determines something, He but says to it "Be" and it is! (as the Qur'an states). Muslims venerate Mary, the mother of Jesus. She indeed gave birth to Jesus though she was a virgin. She was a spiritual woman who was chosen among her people to the office of special contemplation and prayer. But Muslims do not hold her to be the "mother of God" and similar attributes. She too was fully human and was a beloved and important person in a remarkable series of miracles in a special time in human history. Every biology and miracle, the explainable and the inexplicable, whether it is the creation of Adam from clay or the conception of any given child of two parents, goes back to God. It is all the same to Him. All of it easy. All of it His.

In Islamic parlance, Jesus (peace be upon him) is known by the venerable titles of "Word" and "Spirit," since the Qur'an tells us that God cast the "word" or "spirit" upon Mary, the Mother of Jesus. "Indeed, the angels said: 'O Mary! God gives you glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in this world and the Hereafter, and he shall be among those brought near [to God]. He will speak to humankind in the cradle and in manhood, and he is of the righteous" (Qur'an, 3:45).

Also, the Qur'an states: "The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was but a Messenger of God, and His word which He conveyed to Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him" (Qur'an, 4:171). "And indeed God gave Moses the Book [Torah], and after him We sent Messengers in succession. We gave Jesus son of Mary clear proofs and strengthened him with the Holy Spirit [Angel Gabriel]" (Qur'an, 2:87).

The thought life of a Muslim with regard to all the prophets is best summed by the following verse of the Qur'an "Say [O believers]: "We believe in God and [the Book] sent down to us, and what was sent down to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes; and what was given to Moses and Jesus and what was given to [all] the Prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction between any of them, and to Him do we surrender ourselves" (Qur'an 2:136).

I have just found out recently that the concept of Christian gods--or the appointment of Isa A.S. as the son of Allah--was relatively recent. It was made by a mere 300 bishops in Nicea in 320 AD! It is called the Nicea Council.

There are millions of educated christians in the world. Why can't they read history and discover the truth themselves?

It is not some early sects of Christians who once believed in Jesus' death on the cross, and not only from Nicea.

Nicea just estabilished the theological subtleties, all the History was already fixed in the Gospel and the Apostolic Epistles, aka the New Testament.

And these beliefs are central to Christianity. To a Christian denying them is becoming apostate, as are a great deal of the clergy nowadays. The Cross of Christ is believed for 2000 years now by hundreds of millions of Christian of all denominations and cultures.

I hope you don't mind my contributing the Christian perspective on your forum for the sake of a spirited discussion from many perspectives. I found this article, and felt that you might appreciate knowing why Christians would have as the centerpiece of their religion the crucifixion and murder of the founder of their religion. The gospels record that Jesus taught that his purpose was primarily to bear the punishment for the sins of the world, and that teaching and healing was secondary. Not suprisingly, this is totally counterintuitive, but this not something that was made up by people (and who would make up such a thing as the Messiah being crucified?): it was foretold in prophecy.

In the scroll of Isaiah, written nearly 700 years before Jesus was born, it is written (posted in 2 parts):

[B] Isaiah 52:13-53:6[/B]
See, my servant will act wisely;
he will be raised and lifted up and highly exalted.
Just as there were many who were appalled at him-
his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man
and his form marred beyond human likeness-
so will he sprinkle many nations,
and kings will shut their mouths because of him.
For what they were not told, they will see,
and what they have not heard, they will understand.

Who has believed our message
and to whom has the arm of [I]YHWH[/I] been revealed?
He grew up before him like a tender shoot,
and like a root out of dry ground.
He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him,
nothing in his appearance that we should desire him.
He was despised and rejected by men,
a man of sorrows, and familiar with suffering.
Like one from whom men hide their faces
he was despised, and we esteemed him not.

Surely he took up our infirmities
and carried our sorrows,
yet we considered him stricken by God,
smitten by him, and afflicted.
[B]But he was pierced for our transgressions,
he was crushed for our iniquities;
the punishment that brought us peace was upon him,
and by his wounds we are healed.[/B]
We all, like sheep, have gone astray,
each of us has turned to his own way;
and [I]YHWH[/I] has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.

To be continued. . .

[B]Isaiah 53:7-12[/B]
He was oppressed and afflicted,
yet he did not open his mouth;
he was led like a lamb to the slaughter,
and as a sheep before her shearers is silent,
so he did not open his mouth.
By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
And who can speak of his descendants?
For he was cut off from the land of the living;
for the transgression of my people he was stricken.
He was assigned a grave with the wicked,
and with the rich in his death,
though he had done no violence,
nor was any deceit in his mouth.

[B]Yet it was [I]YHWH[/I]'s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
and though [I]YHWH[/I] makes his life a guilt offering,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days[/B]
[offspring are not necessarily descendants; his followers can be considered offspring],
and the will of [I]YHWH[/I] will prosper in his hand.
After the suffering of his soul,
he will see the light of life and be satisfied;
by knowledge of him my righteous servant will justify many,
and he will bear their iniquities.
Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,
and he will divide the spoils with the strong,
because he poured out his life unto death,
and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
and made intercession for the transgressors.

. . .

This prophecy detailed the suffering of Jesus Christ with uncanny precision, in spite of the fact that it was written 700 years before Jesus fulfilled every prediction perfectly! Jesus was "assigned a grave with the wicked" but was laid to rest in Yusef of Aramathea's tomb cut out of rock, being "with the rich in his death". He rose from the dead on the third day, "seeing the light of life" after his suffering. We know for a fact that this was written long before Jesus fulfilled these things because the Dead Sea Scrolls found in the caves of Qumran included in their scriptorium a complete scroll of Isaiah written aproximately 700 years before Christ. This prophecy is not alone; several other prophecies in the Old Testament also speak of the suffering and death of the Messiah, which was counter intuitive, and was simply dismissed by the Jews when Jesus fulfilled them. But it happened none the less, and was documented not only in the Bible, but in the writings of several non biblical historians of the day.

I understand why Muslim perspective that telling the story of the suffering of Jesus Christ may seem like villifying Jesus, and respect your honoring Jesus as a prophet, but this is exactly what happened; he willingly gave himself to be villified and condemned for our sins, because we cannot take the punishmet for our sins and live, because the wages of sin is spiritual death. But God loved the world so much that he gave his one and only son to bear the wrath of God that each and every one of us has incurred by our sins, that whoever repents and trusts in Jesus' atonement may be acquitted on account of his being condemned for our sins. We do not villify him by telling the story of his amazing sacrifice; by doing so, we tell of his love, that he would bear the punishment of our sins unto death on a cross, and that he rose from the dead; we are telling the message of his victory, that he redeemed undeserving sinners like us by his amazing love.


Peace to you,

~Berkana

. .. ... .... ..... .... ... .. .
When the power of love overcomes
the love of power, there will be peace.

Here's another prophecy from the Bible, for your consideration. The prophet Daniel wrote the following prophecy about 500 years before Jesus was born with uncanny precision:

[B]Daniel 9:20-27[/B] (the Prophecy of the seventy sevens)
While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to YHWH my God for his holy hill- while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. He instructed me and said to me, "Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. As soon as you began to pray, an answer was given, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision:
"Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city
     * to finish transgression,
     * to put an end to sin,
     * to atone for wickedness,
     * to bring in everlasting righteousness,
     * to seal up vision and prophecy and
     * to anoint the most holy.
     "Know and understand this: From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of trouble. After the sixty-two 'sevens,' [B][I]the Anointed One will be cut off, but not for himself.[/I][/B] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed. He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him.

To be continued. . .

The years spoken of in prophecy seem to be 360-day years. (Revelation 11:3, 12:6, correlated with Daniel 7:25, 12:7) If the 'sevens' in this prophecy correspond to seven year periods, then the Anointed One's coming can be calculated.

Daniel 9:25 says "From the issuing of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem until the Anointed One, the ruler, comes, there will be seven 'sevens,' and sixty-two 'sevens.' "

7(7) + 62(7) = [B]483 years[/B]
483 prophetic years * 360 days per prophetic year = [B]173,880 days[/B] = 476 solar years and 3 weeks

It can be shown from ancient Persian inscriptions and calendar calculations that from the day the decree was issued to rebuild Jerusalem by Artaxerxes (King of Persia) in April of 445 b.c. to the day Jesus was killed ("cut off, but not for himself", verse 26), on Passover day of 30 a.d., spanned [B][I]exactly 173,880 days![/I][/B] (The biblical record of the decree to rebuild Jerusalem is found in Ezra 7:11-26, and Nehemiah 1.) Of course, the ancient Hebrews didn't call the month "April" on their lunar calendar. Their month of Nisan, which had the feast of Passover, overlapped part of March and part of April. The incredible precision of this prophecy is uncanny. No other messianic claimant even comes close to fulfilling this prophetic qualification. (Even if all calculations are dismissed as being too tenuous, the prophecy declares that the messiah would come between the time that Jerusalem was rebuilt after the Babylonian exile and the time that "the people of the ruler who will come. . . destroy the city and the sanctuary." The Anointed One had to have come in the window of opportunity between 445 b.c. and 70 a.d. when Titus and the Romans destroyed Jerusalem and the Temple.)

But all this aside, the prophecy says that the Anointed One was to come and be "cut off, but not for himself". And that's what happened when Jesus put up no resistance and gave himself to be executed on the cross to atone for our sins. (The remainder of the prophecy has yet to be fulfilled; it speaks of the Antichrist, who will come, whom Jesus shall defeat when he returns.)

The concept of Jesus being the Son of God is not a recent concept that was established at the coucil of Nicea in A.D. 320, and educated Christians are not in denial of history. It was recorded that Jesus taught this teaching about himself, and the people found it objectionable. Behold:

[B]John 8:49-59[/B]
"I am not possessed by a demon," said Jesus, "but I honor my Father and you dishonor me. I am not seeking glory for myself; but there is one who seeks it, and he is the judge. I tell you the truth, if anyone keeps my word, he will never see death." At this the Jews exclaimed, "Now we know that you are demon-possessed! Abraham died and so did the prophets, yet you say that if anyone keeps your word, he will never taste death. Are you greater than our father Abraham? He died, and so did the prophets. Who do you think you are?"
     Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word. Your father Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad." "You are not yet fifty years old," the Jews said to him, "and you have seen Abraham!" "I tell you the truth," Jesus answered, "before Abraham was born, I am!" At this, they picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus hid himself, slipping away from the temple grounds.

To be continued. . .

[B]John 10:24-33[/B]
The Jews gathered around him, saying, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly."
     Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me, but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
     Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?"
     "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

However, if this were all there is, it would hardly validate Jesus' claims to divinity. In fact, there is much more to validate Jesus' divinity, and the validation comes in the form of prophecies from the Old Testament. I will post them shortly.

The following Old Testament prophecies teach the divinity of the Messiah. These were all written at least hundreds of years before Jesus Christ was born; we know that we have them uncorrupted because the dead sea scrolls testify to this fact.

[B]Isaiah 9:6-7[/B]
For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given,
and the government will be on his shoulders.
And he will be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace
there will be no end.
He will reign on David's throne
and over his kingdom,
establishing and upholding it
with justice and righteousness
from that time on and forever.
The zeal of [I]YHWH[/I] Almighty
will accomplish this.

[B]Micah 5:2 [/B]
"But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from days of eternity."

To be continued. . .

[B]Psalm 110:1, 4 [/B] [a psalm of Daud]
[I]YHWH[/I] says to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I make your enemies
a footstool for your feet."

[I]YHWH[/I] has sworn
and will not change his mind:
"You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek."

Psalm 110:1 and 110:4 seem cryptic at first, but the following examinations of their meaning from the New Testament indicate that they suggest Messianic divinity.

[B]Matthew 22:41-46 [/B]
While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, "What do you think about the Messiah? Whose son is he?"
     "The son of David," they replied.
     He said to them, "How is it then that David, speaking by the Spirit, calls him 'Lord'? For he says,
     " 'The Lord said to my Lord:
     "Sit at my right hand
     until I put your enemies
     under your feet." '
If then David calls him 'Lord,' how can he be his son?" No one could say a word in reply, and from that day on no one dared to ask him any more questions.

The Messiah was to sit at the right hand of God; the fact that David (Daud) calls his heir "lord" indicates that the Messiah was more than just the son of David; the Spirit of God came upon Mary (Maryam) and she conceived--the Messiah was thus the Son of God. Jesus was the son of David because Mary was descended from David, and Joseph (Yusef), Mary's husband, was also an heir of David. But there's more. . .

Psalm 110:4 is also suggestive of Messianic divinity because a priest's office ends upon his death, whereas the Psalm says that the Messiah will be a priest forever. This can only be so if the Messiah is immortal. For the Messiah to fulfill the role of a priest, He had to be a man, but had to be immortal, and had to be more than merely the Son of David:

[B]Hebrews 7:13-28 [/B]
He [the Messiah] of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing concerning priests. And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life. For it is declared:
     "You are a priest forever,
     in the order of Melchizedek." [Psalm 110:4]
The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:
     "The Lord has sworn
     and will not change his mind:
     'You are a priest forever.' " [Psalm 110:4]
Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.
     Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood. Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
     Such a high priest meets our need--one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself. For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

I know of a great website that handles all the verses Trinitarians use to try and say Jesus is God.

http://www.biblicalunitarian.com/html/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=109

I believe Jesus is God's son, not God himself. I believe he is a man, but he is the messiah, my Lord and King.

I trust this link will help you with the verses many have tried to use saying Jesus is "God in human flesh.

I know of a great website that handles all the verses Trinitarians use

Sorry, no time for web sites. But if you'd like to share your arguments here so we can debate them it's OK.

I'd just like to point out that Unitarianism in particular, and unitarian faiths in general, lack the regenerative power of the full Trinitarian Gospel.

Christian ....Listen to what you are saying: God who created mankind 'his creation" was crucified by his creations for sins that his creations committed against God......!!!
And God created good and bad and have given mankind a choice to choose good or bad then God contridicts himself by dying on a cross for the sins that his creations committed because of the choice that he gave his creations....PLEASE PONDER ABOUT THIS ...AND GIVE ME AN ANSWER

It is interesting that Muslims believe in the Virgin Birth of Jesus, but, as the author states above do not accept the divinity of Jesus Christ. It is sad that God fearing Muslims will not accept His Divinity.

Perhaps the most misunderstood part of God is what truly is meant by His Triune description. God is Triune, but One. In other words, God is three persons in One and One God in three persons. This is manifested in Holy Scripture, where we see the three persons at work in Genesis:

The Spirit of God hovering... is the Holy Spirit person. The Word that God speaks, e.g. "Let there be light" is the Son and Word of God. The Father is the Source of the three persons in One God and says, This is my Beloved Son in Whom I am well pleased at Jesus' Baptism.

In view of the above, why is it difficult to acknowledge that Old Testament prophecy regarding our Lord Jesus Christ has been fulfilled? Psalm 22 and Jesus' word on the Cross, "Eli Eli, lama Sabachthani' followed by "It is finished" appear to indicate that God's Love for all humankind was fulfilled and that Scripture was fulfilled concerning the Messiah and His mission.

God Bless you all.

Rather God created the possibility of evil. I fail to follow how is this bad, unless you wanted a robot world.

Maybe I did not explain myself properly.. I don't believe in a robot world...

Do you agree that God created man and gave man a will of his own to choose between right and wrong and that he created heaven and hell, Heaven for those who believe and work righteousness on this earth and Hell for those who disbelieve right.
Do you believe in judgment day.

So tell me why would God create himself into human form so that his other creations (Jews) would sacrifice God because of sins that his creations committed against him. In other words why would he create good and evil, just so that he can have bad things happen to himself to save his creations, or just so that God the Creator must order himself to be beaten to a pulp to free his creations of their sins that they have committed against him. Why would God allow himself to be disgraced and show weakness in this manner? ÏSurely anyone who believes this shows disrespect to GodÓ

Why would God go to his own hell that he created, surely if he created hell and he allowed himself to go into it; it would not affect him at all, he would not be in pain,
But clearly in this movie Christ (god) was in pain, he was surely being tortured by his own creations, and god clearly seem willing and unwilling to participate in this torture÷.Now why would God be willing and unwilling to participate in this torture, surely if he created it and he ordained it, he should not have been shivering and asking himself to save him, (in the beginning of the movie) , then also he says that this is what should be ordained by himself (god) and then contradicting himself asking himself/ Father why have thou forsaken me.
And in this movie his mother is portrayed as a women that is also unwilling to except Christ fate, Surely if ones son is given such a great honour you and your followers (disciples) should except such a fate you should be happy, but your followers (disciples) who is your closes friends and companions deceive you and deny you Ò one would assume that you and your mother with disciples are disbelievers then. Ò Cause thatÌs how it appears in this movie. ÏChrist/ God also says in this movie I am your SERVANT and son of your hand maidÌ How can God be a servant to himself?




to continue

One of the men that was crucified with Jesus ask, if you are the Father why canÌt you save yourselfÓ and God / Christ had no answer, could not defend himself, could not say a word as if he was not himself. I am assuming when you read how Christ talks to the people and his disciples in the Bible it would seem as if he is not the same person being crucified.
And lastly if a holy man /Christ/God who has no sins had to die for everyoneÌs sins in that manner, humiliating and torturous, gruesome death, surely every Christian should be rejoicing, and wanting to commit any despicable act you can do, because you free of sin, Everyone donÌt need to worry, we all going to heaven, so tell me why then do we need a day of Judgement. Why!!!! Why doesnÌt God just put us all in Heaven right now because he already died for our sins? And if you saying we still have sin, then whatÌs the purpose of Gods death. What is the purpose of giving us a choice?

Surely if we all going to heaven why do we need Judgement day because our God who created us with sin, then wiped away our sin by dying a gruesome death committed by his creations he died for÷

In my opinion believing God died for our sins is a great disrespect to God. Do people not see the greatness of God that he is an above all human attribute? God does not need a partner or son to make him whole, he does not need anything and anyone we need him.

Blumoon, you're not the only one who found the idea of Jesus Christ being crucified repulsive; even his disciple, who used merely human reasoning, objected:

[B]Matthew 16:21-23[/B]
From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
     Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!"
     Jesus turned and said to Peter, "Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men."

But no amount of reasoning can remove the fact that this was sealed in prophecy. Look at the prophecy from Isaiah and Daniel quoted above. These were written centuries before Jesus Christ was born. We know this with absolute certainty because the dead sea scrolls, which pre-date the birth of Christ by a century and a half, contain scrolls of both Daniel and Isaiah, both of which show that we have had the prophecies of the suffering servant and the prophecy of the seventy 'sevens' handed down to us uncorrupted. If you dispute this, you're not disputing some notion of men, but a prophecy of God.